The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    I tend to play mostly PI, legato, and a lot of things borrowed from Kevin Eubanks technique (which i really like!) on steel strings. I just feel that to really develop speed using traditional classical IM technique is a huge time and practice investment i can never really make. I work at it, enjoy it, but to get it to a high level would probably require practicing for many hours every day, whereas the PI technique feels doable to me, coming from a non-classical background..

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27
    I just found another thread on this subject that was started in 2015 for those who are interested in this subject:
    How to do line runs fingerstyle??
    Also I found out Rob MacKillop (also a member here) has a good website that covers this:
    rmclassicalguitar

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter
    I tend to play mostly PI, legato, and a lot of things borrowed from Kevin Eubanks technique (which i really like!) on steel strings. I just feel that to really develop speed using traditional classical IM technique is a huge time and practice investment i can never really make. I work at it, enjoy it, but to get it to a high level would probably require practicing for many hours every day, whereas the PI technique feels doable to me, coming from a non-classical background..
    Does anyone know where to find info on Kevin Eubanks' technique? It looks interesting, but it's hard to identify what he's doing just by watching, and I can't find much explanation in my searches.

  5. #29

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    I have been trying the thumb/index technique out today and it seems to work quite well. Even though I’ve never tried it before, I can get a reasonable speed with it and it seems to ‘swing’ more than IM.

    Even though I have a reasonable classical guitar technique I have never been very happy using IM for fast jazz lines, so the PI method looks promising.

  6. #30
    Inspired by one of Rob MacKillop's videos, I tried P-I-M today for even faster lines. It's pretty cool when extra speed is needed. It makes string crossing very smooth. It can be very useful for playing triplets too. Ta-ka-da ta-ka-da ta-ka-da ...

  7. #31

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    Here’s one of Rob’s videos demonstrating PIM, I must try this out too!


  8. #32

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    Check out a player called Nelson Veras. He recorded a duo album with kreisberg

  9. #33
    Of course there is always the hybrid picking option. Even though I use hybrid picking sometimes, I find that it has a limited potential to explore guitars polyphony. Two of your best fingers become one. You lose one of your best pickers. But what's worse is they (pick holding fingers) would have to play the bass part of polyphonic passages, not the melody. Given that most work both in speed and articulation is in the melody, it's conceptually not well suited to more complex polyphony.
    One solution to that is to string the guitar up side down. Treble strings at the top, bass strings at the bottom. Then I hybrid picking can be more powerful. I wonder anybody did that (other than some left handed players out of necessity).

  10. #34
    Here is a good article that recommends P-I, instead of I-M.
    Classical Guitar Right Hand Speed

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Here is a good article that recommends P-I, instead of I-M.
    Classical Guitar Right Hand Speed
    Very interesting article, thanks for posting it. I am trying the P-I technique a bit and it seems that it may be better suited for me than I-M, which always felt unnatural (especially on steel strings).

  12. #36

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    Hello,
    I began working with the book, "Easy guide to chord melody" and i enjoy it. I have question regarding "speed burst with the major scale".

    The book suggests practicing using index (i) and ring (a) fingers, which i find more natural than index (i) and middle (m) fingers.
    Are there players here that use (i) and ring (a) as a main rule for walking the melodic lines ?
    Thanks for your advice !
    Alain

  13. #37

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    This young man uses every finger but for really fast lines he reverts to mainly picado technique.

  14. #38

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    Hello,
    an interesting article here (classical)
    Classical Guitar Lesson: FAST SCALES WITH ami
    Alain

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Cool technique. But unfortunately it involves using nails.
    How would you obtain a good tone using the classical technique without some nail? I've seen a few examples in this thread and they all use nails.

  16. #40

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    Here and essay about playing classical without nails:
    https://rmclassicalguitar.com/technique/

  17. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel_A
    How would you obtain a good tone using the classical technique without some nail? I've seen a few examples in this thread and they all use nails.
    I actually do not like the tone with nails on steel string instruments. Lots of players use fingerstyle on steel string guitars at least occasionally without nails. Joe Pass is one example.
    Check out Tim Lerch. He uses fingerstyle technique without nails. I've heard of even classical players who play without nails but I can't remember where I read about them.
    Timothy Lerch - YouTube

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel_A
    How would you obtain a good tone using the classical technique without some nail? I've seen a few examples in this thread and they all use nails.
    Here is a video

  19. #43

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    Classical players are obviously the ones to look to for finger playing technique. Playing with fingers opens up the guitar as picks push you into playing linearly. But you'd probably lose some of the dynamics and speed that a pick gives you. An effective compromise is making use of hammer-ons and pull-offs. Pass and Sylvain Luc exploit this to great effect. And then there's Stanley Jordan.

  20. #44

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    Hey I like playing linearly :-)

    I think for anyone who does both a bit it’s good to develop overlap - flatpicking what you would normally fingerpick and fingerpick what you would normally flatpick.

    OTOH I like the idea of doing everything one way. I’ve chosen to flatpick because much of the music I play demands that approach and work with the limitations.

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I actually do not like the tone with nails on steel string instruments. Lots of players use fingerstyle on steel string guitars at least occasionally without nails. Joe Pass is one example.
    Check out Tim Lerch. He uses fingerstyle technique without nails. I've heard of even classical players who play without nails but I can't remember where I read about them.
    Timothy Lerch - YouTube
    Errr... Rob MacKillop?

  22. #46

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    I began to play lutes some years ago... and eventually I adopted lute technique to steel string when I play with fingers.

    Lute is played without nails.

    On lute there are a few technique too - for example playing renaissance lute and later baroque style instruments like liuto attiorbato, archlute and baroque lute may require different techniques.

    But general principles are more or less the same - and they CAN be applied to steel string guitars

    1) angle of hand to the strings is much smaller than trad classical technique (on renaissance or medieval lutes it can be even parallel to the strings
    2) the touch is different. You do not pluck the string, to push it a bit towards the top of the guitar and the let it go. It is easier to do on light and resposive lutes with extremely low tension. But actually it is possible on heavy still strings too: the secret is not the force but precision.
    (by the way it works for the touch with the pick too)
    3) alternate p-i picking (thumb - index) - which imitated plectrum technique. It can 'thumb inside' or ' thumb outside'.

    it is interesting that some modern steel string guitarists found that technique intuitively

    Mark Knopfler (chek 03:10 in this vid) does it with his thumb out



    Kevin Eubanks does it with his thumb in - though he plays both ways and also tradition i-m too
    (check here after 2nd min)



    George Benson famous picking hand is actually the same, if you take out a pick his grip will be similar to renaissance lute

    Finally many modern classical guitarists tend to play with much softer angle of the wrist though they do not use alternate p-i technique

    If you look carefully you will see that in this video the wrist position is such that if the thumb would go downward it would be under index finger - which is basically lute hand position (Lorenzo Micheli also plays lutes an dI guess he changed technique under that influence)


  23. #47

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    And Kevin Eubanks on acoustic steel string playing line 'thumb in' in alternate p-i-p-i technique


  24. #48

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    As I am (too much) following lute groups on FB I see this guy a bit too often for my taste...