The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I wasn't sure where to post this.
    I have wanted to have a crack at classical guitar for some time now and I was wondering if any site users also play this style. If so are there any tips or pitfall for the unwary?

    a little about me. . .

    I have played jazz guitar for some 40 years, I'm a fairly good reader and I have a sound knowledge of jazz theory.
    Among my guitar tutors I have a book by Aaron Shearer simply called Classical Guitar, and I have the Mattio Carcassi Guitar Method.

    Some years ago I had a crack at the Carcassi but I found that coming from a place of playing quite sophisticated jazz to very simple classical studies got tedious recall quickly. I'm older now and possible have more patience. I hope.

    Last but not least. I don't have a classical guitar. I do have a nylon string guitar which I bought for the odd Latin number, but it has not got a classical neck. It is a Martinez Slim Jim and it has a regular width nut. This was the primary reason I bought it at the time.

    I will need to buy a suitable guitar. Any suggestions?

    Is it possible to play classical on a regular neck, the Martinez?

    thanks, and a big Happy New Year to all.

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  3. #2

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    Happy New Year Oscar, First I would find the best teacher in your area. Classical is a very serious discipline and before sinking money in a quality guitar, make sure this is for you. However you can still enjoy some classical music without becoming the next Segovia. Andrew York has some wonderful music that is not so technically demanding. Some others as well. On the instrument side, I think Kenny Hill makes some very nice affordable classical guitars, student to professional. Hope this helps some and good luck!

  4. #3

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    There are a lot of pitfalls but as long as you keep seeing your teacher then it will work out in the end. Discovering pitfalls is probably a good thing anyways! (don't look for them though).

    A thing that really helped me starting out trying to get my classical guitar technique together is to write things down what my teacher said. It can be very easy to misremember or even forget one or few of the technicalities of playing the instrument while practicing and I'm speaking back when I was around 18-20 years old lol. Think of it as having a long list of cooking recipes. Having your notes in front of you while practicing is essential imo.

    Its doable to play classical on a narrower neck (I have played classical pieces on electric). My teacher recommended getting a C7 Cordoba so thats probably a good choice. I got a C9 instead as I couldn't find a C7. Still a worthwhile purchase.

    Its good that you have that Aaron Shear Book (Part One right?). That was my first classical book. I highly recommend checking the part where it says 'Prepared-Stroke' pgs 36-41. I use Prepared free strokes 99.999% of the time compared to continuity free strokes and its a good model to go by, especially if you watch or listen to Manuel Barrueco/Pepe Romero play.

    Good luck !

  5. #4

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    Unlike someone starting guitar anew, you have a developed left hand.
    You also have a developed sense of musicality.
    Starter pieces like those in Carcassi are aimed at developing basic solid technique in both hands.
    Your needs in the short run will probably be more focused on the right hand.
    My suggestion is to improvise or compose more engaging left hand content
    while working strictly within the confines of the right hand articulation of a given etude.

  6. #5

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    I started taking lessons for the first time in my life around 4 months ago and they are classical guitar lessons.

    The guitar I bought was an Ortega which cost probably around $260 so not expensive. After filing down the bridge that guitar will do me up until at least grade 8 (ie my final exam).

    My teacher is starting me at grade 6 which is the first grade of the advanced program. The big issue and one that I was worried about is that my technique is not up to scratch for both left and right hands.

    For my picking hand the teacher said that my technique is passable and that to start from scratch after playing for the time that I have would not be in my best interest as it would take to long.

    The thumb on my fretting hand is pretty much a rock thumb in that I use that a lot on the electric to fret notes in the bass from over the neck so keeping the thumb on the back of the neck in classical is a challenge.

    After grade 6 the plan is to spend a solid 6 months on technique before sitting the higher grades. My biggest challenge actually is sight reading. I have mainly learned by ear and tab so my reading ability is fairly low as far as grade 6 standard is concerned but I work on that daily.

    Playing classical is great though and when I played for family and friends over Christmas they were really into it and asking me lots of questions. Good luck on your journey.

    Edit: I agree with finding the best teacher in town. Try a few and see which one you like best. My teacher is an ex classical guitar exam examiner and he's giving me great tips not only about playing but about the exam and exam pieces to choose as well.

  7. #6

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    I'll offer this as a little different perspective. Having begun studying guitar through classical foundations, there are real issues and sensibilities that have always set my playing habits apart, in the best ways. Deriving a swing sense through the fingers, rather than the wrist has been an ongoing endeavour. Things that are natural for pick articulation are not natural for classical, swing and my relationship to the strength of the beat. And by the same, things that are natural through classical are not a given for pick playing, left hand thumb on the back of the neck, fretting through the fingertips with curved fingers, finger independence and string groupings and voicings in spread layout. The control and awareness of dynamics out of the hand is also an essential given in classical. My present playing is very much a mix of styles, classical fingerstyle with unorthodox strumming and up down picking with the nails but it's definitely got classical to thank. I play on steel with a slightly wider fingerboard than the standard electric.
    To that end, some very important books that helped me a lot.
    The aforementioned "red" Aaron Shearer book
    Laurendo Almeida's Guitar Tutor An up-to-date classical guitar method , especially useful because it addresses the linear up the neck approach right from the start, which fit in with the fingerboard knowledge so essential to jazz.
    Ralph Towner's Improvisation and Performance techniques for classical and acoustic guitar, very modern and hip treatment of harmony and technique unlike any other. It's long out of print... but... http://valdez.dumarsengraving.com/ralph.towner.pdf should give you some idea if you want to use it to study.

    In material that informed my jazz playing, Jack Marshall arrangements in the Christopher Parkening collections, Laurendo Almeida's arrangements of movie themes and popular tunes, Takemitsu arrangements of 12 tunes for classical guitar, and Augustin Barrios were particularly challenging and life changing for me. All of them showed me applications and the language of classical technique and harmonic possibilities. All of them formed a real complement to more traditional jazz guitar approaches.

    Hope you find it satisfying and really adds something to your guitar world!

    David

  8. #7

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    It seems that classical guitar is more popular among the jazz players than I thought. When I was taking lessons on jazz guitar in my youth I had a teacher who was very much a jazz purist. He was good, world class good, had learned directly from Barry Galbraith and Joe Pass, but he wouldn't entertain anything other than jazz.

    I must confess that this teacher instilled his purist values in me and for many years I played jazz exclusively and to my detriment; I turned down gigs that were not my vision of jazz. I managed to get very good but no one was hearing me.

    I am older now and a little wiser (I hope). I believe that the purist attitude is necessary for the advancement of the art - but necessary only in the hands of someone capable of making these advancements. By specializing the boundaries can be expanded.
    But for the majority, myself very much included in this group, it is probably best to play everything I can get my hands on, to never, never turn down a gig.
    (I would add that in recent years this is what I have done, playing country, blues, jazz, even some ethnic music, and my playing has soared as a result.)

    Sorry. . . This is a rather long winded thank you.

    Have a great day.
    Last edited by guitaroscar; 01-07-2018 at 09:05 PM. Reason: Spelling, punctuation

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitaroscar

    I am older now and a little wiser (I hope). I believe that the purist attitude is necessary for the advancement of the art - but necessary only in the hands of someone capable of making these advancements. By specializing the boundaries can be expanded.
    .
    Interesting. Some artists within the genre I've known have had very differing views on what "the art" is, and for a large part it's been prejudices within and from the outside that have helped keep a certain sound, for better or for worse.
    One of the reasons there was so much diversity at the start of bop (cuban, classical, blues, swing, popular songform, string arrangement) was that the idea of what jazz was was not always clear but the excellence of open minded people was.

    Maybe you see the strength of jazz as an art coming from purists who exclude "outside influences" where I see it as a product of people who've found integrity in traditions but always included their own personal strengths too.
    Lennie Tristano, George Shearing, Bill Evans and so many other piano players didn't hold back their love and lexicon of classical influenced technique. But I'll say that I've encountered more guitar teachers who told me outright that jazz couldn't be played and learned until I first gave up a nylon string guitar and learned to play with a pick. For me, it took meeting pianists and a guitarist who played fingerstyle for me to find affirmation in finding my own way.

    We learn a lot of things from our teachers, including limitations too, I guess.

    David

  10. #9

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    I’m the other way round from the OP, I started out at age 12 on classical guitar with lessons from a good teacher. Then some years later got into rock, then eventually taught myself jazz.

    I don’t really know which method books are best, my teacher didn’t use them (we followed the ABRSM syllabus pieces and scales etc). Personally I prefer playing classical pieces on the wider nut.

    I don’t understand the attitude that one genre is better than another. One thing I love about guitar is that the same basic instrument can do rock, classical, folk, jazz, blues, slide guitar, etc. I’ve had a go at all of these!

  11. #10

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    There is massive amount of beautiful and playable pieces for classical guitar. No need to be a virtuoso at all to enjoy. By massive - I really mean that. Lots of it is also free, just have to sniff around. But no method book (plenty of those also) can teach you to play with good tone and good technique alone. Good tone - nr.1. thing for classical guitar. Can't imagine anyone achieving that on classical guitar without a very good teacher.

    Edit: that Carcassi book, I think I know which one you meant in OP. Yep, it's very samey. I remember just going through it for fun but didn't find much to repeat. Try Sagreras's or Pujol. Hm, I personally never liked method books by one author. Too few gems in them.

  12. #11

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    I decided to learn Classical guitar about 3 years ago. I found a good teacher who wasn't hung up on pedagogical aspects of teaching i.e. I was 64 at the time and had played pick style for quite a while so some habits were not worth the time spent trying to change them. I have always held the neck in the classical sense i.e. thumb at the back so that wasn't to difficult.

    I was a cr@p reader of standard notation and possessed little right hand finger coordination, I could grab chords etc but true picking finger independence was woefully deficient. We started with Christopher Parkening's Books I and proceeded into book 2.

    As a result I dropped the pick entirely and play strictly with my fingers. I started out with a crossover guitar, a Yamaha 1200 NTX. Good sounding amplified but pretty dull acoustically. I had to replace the nut as the string spacing was too tight. I came to learn that at least for me the wider nut of the traditional classical guitar suited me best. I have large hands and longish fingers and the tighter string spacing of the crossover type guitar in conjunction with the thicker nylon stringer just didn't work for me.

    If I was to do it again, I would have purchased something like the Kenny Hill Player series or the Cordoba C10. I eventually ended up getting a luthier built traditional classical guitar and later a luthier built Flamenco guitar. I also took up flamenco as well. The luthier built Flamenco is fantastic and I can use it for any classical or jazz piece. It was built by Ethan Deustch and I love this guitar. 2.2lbs and has a wonderful tone and attack.

    That said, I have found it physically difficult to bounce back and forth between my electric steel strings and my flamenco guitar. Not because of any neck issues as I'm playing a custom built thin line with classical neck specs but with a radiused fingerboard. The problem is with my nails. Obliviously steel string wear down the nails faster than nylon strings but I also find a longer nail works best for the nylon acoustic but not with the electric i.e. I keep a short nail when I play steel string.
    So I was going to say I now just dabble in classical or flamenco guitar but I really just dabble in jazz, classical and modern fingerstyle e.g. Michael Hedges etc. Dropping the pick has been a liberating experience for me.


    A couple of books I would suggest are by Bridget Mermikides and Scott Tennant. The Mermikides books have both traditional exercises or etudes but some really challenging and musical arrangements. The Compendium book is available in both Tab = standard notation or standard notation only. Ignore the one star reviews as it is all for the Kindle edition i.e. Buy the hard copy. My only wish is that it was spiral bound it is a great book.


    Amazon.com: The Classical Guitar Compendium - Classical Masterpieces Arranged For Solo Guitar Bk/CD (8601417106747): Bridget Mermikides: Books

    Amazon.com: Classical Guitar Anthology: Classical Masterpieces Arranged for Solo Guitar (0888680088996): Bridget Mermikides, Hal Leonard Corp.: Books

    Pumping Nylon: The Classical Guitarist's Technique Handbook, Book & Online Audio (Pumping Nylon Series): Scott Tennant: 0038081510453: Amazon.com: Books

    Amazon.com: The Classical Guitar Compendium - Classical Masterpieces Arranged for Solo Guitar: Standard Notation Edition (No Tablature) (0888680088668): Bridget Mermikides: Books

  13. #12

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    I 've kind of been down this route. Playing jazz for years, i liked classical guitar, but mainly wanted to be able to play the nylon strings at a good level. For me one problem was, i could do the playing fairly easily, but i had no sound, so it took years till i managed to be able to enjoy playing nylon strings (i still am very mediocre at it despite getting a classical guitar degree). Another one was understanding what you play, classical works very differently than jazz. And also there is a big difference between the constant improvisation and playing different things of jazz, and the long study and persistence in classical pieces (which works wonders though).

    Overall i found a good teacher to be invaluable.

    Instrument wise, get a great classical guitar if you can. If you play jazz for years, and have great archtop, acoustic, electric instruments etc, it really doesn't work to go to a bad classical, specially when developing a good sound is one of the biggest challenges, and you really have to learn not to force nylon strings, which is difficult to do if the guitar is sub par.

    The classical neck is optimal for classical music, but not the greatest if you want to use the guitar for jazz stuff at some point. Also it is rare, but i 've seen quality classical guitars warping or needing a neck reset, so i would consider a truss rod. I want to have a great classical that can do both classical, bossa and jazz stuff, has low enough action so it can play jazz, so i 'm going with a slimmer neck and a truss rod when i eventually commission a guitar. I have a guild paloma electric nylon string with a neck with the dimensions of an acoustic (so slightly smaller than that of a classical), and i have no problems playing classical stuff on it.

    Best of luck! It is a great feeling when you get to play these beautiful bach pieces

  14. #13

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    I was concerned about the potential for a downstream neck reset but I don't like the added weight of a truss rod. My classical guitar is built with a tapered fretboard that is thicker at the nut end so that if necessary to lower the action on can plane the fingerboard. Not my ideal choice but it is a lot easier than a neck reset on a Spanish heel. It is about 13 years old now and no problems. My flamenco guitar has carbon fiber rods in the neck to give it rigidity.

  15. #14

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    I took classical guitar lessons as an adult for about 3 years, it was great and I really enjoyed it. For me, playing interesting music and arrangements was the most fun part, and so I'll make two recommendations that are very playable and fun if you're new to classical:

    - Estudios Sencillos by Leo Brouwer
    - Bach Cello Suites for Guitar, by Stanley Yates

    Like people have said it's good to get a good teacher. I'd also add that you don't really need to pay a lot for a good classical, this is going to sound insane but my favorite nylon string guitar ever is my $80 yamaha, and I've played lots of 5 figure instruments (I took lessons at a high end classical guitar shop and they let me play any guitar there).

  16. #15

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    For years I played a cheap Fender classical guitar (of all things! I don’t know if they still make them). My teacher thought it was nearly as good as his (much more expensive) guitar.

    The classical guitar I play now is a Camps SP6 (spruce top). It has the standard classical neck width but it has an adjustable truss wire/rod inside the neck, which is designed to keep the neck stable etc. It also allows them to keep the neck profile shallower, which I like.

    I haven’t got any recordings of classical stuff, but you can hear me playing it here on Nuages:


  17. #16

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    I began as classical player as a small kid and played classical guitar quite intensively and almost exclusively untill 18-19.. now I do not play it but I play lutes... and from time to time I play nylon string guiatr without nails.

    You can use any guitar that can be stringed with nylons... neck width is a sort of stereotype...
    I see no limitation to playing classical guitar with almos any kind of necks (well maybe V-neck can cause problem)

    It's up to you to decide.. but in your situation probably it would be better to focus more not on modern classical school but on what is called Romantic guitar - that is 18-19th century type of guitar (that was actually used by Carcassi and Sor)... and usually it was played without nails.
    you will hardly buy a real one or a good modern copy of course... but you can use modern classical guitar with low tension high-quality strings (sometimes also half-step lower tuning helps too).. I like Aquila strings for that purpose.. they sound good without nails.

    I think it can be easier transition from jazz guitar.

    Here's Barrios played on romatic guitar. Check the right hand - no nails,and different hand position than modern classical.

  18. #17

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    I too tried to do Classical, starting with Bach's Cello Suite#1... it was kind of fun and challenging... I was hooked!

    From there I found Solo Guitar Playing by Frederick Noad which got me more hooked....
    This book contained the song "Romance" hauntingly beautiful and easily recognizable.

    Then I (my Wife) had an epiphany... I have always loved Brazilian music, so she bought me Villa-Lobos for Solo Guitar
    and it basically changed my life. Added a bit of Garoto, Baden-Powell, Luis Bonfa etc... and the music is so fun to play
    that I stuck with my Vialou for a solid 10 years. So much fun to "grab a handful" of strings, and mostly all the
    music use the same chords as from your Jazz experience, so left hand shouldn't be a problem.

    My Vialou is a Fiesta FC from Orpheus Valley (Bulgaria) and I use Savarez very high tension (yellow card) strings.
    Amazon.com: Solo Guitar Playing - Book 1, 4th Edition (0752187995128): Frederick Noad: Books

    The Guitar Works of Garoto Volume 1: Garoto: Amazon.com: Books

    Villa-Lobos Collected Works for Solo Guitar

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Papawooly
    So much fun to "grab a handful" of strings, and mostly all the
    music use the same chords as from your Jazz experience, so left hand shouldn't be a problem.
    Haha! Learning jazz chords&inversions helped me to learn classical/romantic pieces much faster.

  20. #19

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    I've played classical and jazz guitars simultaneously all my life, and it's only been a terrific way to make a living. I studied with Oscar Ghiglia and John Williams, among others, and really love the sound of that music. I now play a 7-string classical guitar (a Flamenco as well), and rarely play my electric guitars, but I always enjoyed the differences. I don't see any points of contention as long as you have a lot of time to practice.

  21. #20

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    It's all just music. There is no such thing as a classical or a jazz guitar - that's all marketing hype. You can play classical on anything, jazz on anything.

    Here's something I did earlier:


  22. #21

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    Thank you for this post. Rob, absolutely beautifully played as usual.

  23. #22

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    Graham. Nuages sounded great on a nylon strung ,a very nice rendition
    thanks.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverfoxx
    Graham. Nuages sounded great on a nylon strung ,a very nice rendition
    thanks.
    Thanks! I want to record some classical pieces sometime, but it takes a lot of practice for me to get them to the point where I'd be happy with them. Never enough time as usual!

  25. #24

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    I eventually settled on a Ibanez AEG8TNE. This is a slimline nylon string cutaway. The neck is somewhere between a true classical neck and a steel string neck. I went this way because I also want to use this guitar on gigs. I presently play a duet with a tenor player who loves Stan Getz. I comp for 4 hours every gig. We have been together for 15 years and I can't begin to tell you what a pleasure it is to watch the other musician grow and change.

    This leads me way off topic but isn't it great to play music and share the experience with a good friend instead of strangers who called you for the gig.

    cheers

  26. #25

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    Hi Oscar I play classical, I actually had my first lesson with Rob about twenty five years ago.

    I really think if you want to get more out of your classical studies you should try the Carcassi and similar things again. Try and develop the attitude that the music is beautiful and it is your job to do it justice. That will mean really refining your technique and awareness and taking full responsibility if the results do not satisfy you.

    I know I might sound pompous but I really think that any piece however humble still in print a couple hundred years later can sound soulful in the right hands. Your job is to be those hands, not to use hasty judgement to cheat yourself out of a vivid learning experience.

    I would also recommend Oscar Faria's superb book 'The Brazilian Guitar Book' which, if you take the time to go through it as a method (it's really systematic) should give you new stuff for the gig right away. He breaks down the style of players like Joao Gilberto with short digestible examples. I hope you are enjoying your new guitar

    The Brazilian Guitar Book (with Free Audio CD): Amazon.co.uk: Nelson Faria: 9781883217020: Books

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