The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    Peter Farrell with a nice show of the right hand. The pick looks thin gauge and a good part of the pick hangs out freely.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Lot of alternate picking by the looks of it

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot
    Here's an actual example (and an old chestnut of a tune):
    GB -Sounds like lines Charlie Parker might have played but a little more .....'Urban' and a little more modern.

    Both Parker and Coltrane sound to me like they consciously avoided 'Raw Blues' but GB sounds like he embraces it more even though playing eloquent graceful lines.

    What a Player....

  5. #54

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    Parker played lots of raw blues licks on chord IV but not so much on chord I.

  6. #55

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    I will check that ...I think I was referring more to mixing in long incredibly agile lines with passing chords and subs in the lines then just wailing on long notes...almost like screaming Hendrix or Junior Walker (lol) on the long notes..

    Brecker did that and obviously it would have been child's play for CP or Coltrane to do it but maybe they were onto more 'serious' stuff ?

    On 'Coltrane Plays the Blues' it's very Blue and brilliant but he never just went into what Youtube calls ' beast mode'...or long wailing screaming stuff.

    I know you have studied these guys and even transcribed them so ...I will listen to CP

    Sorry for off topic .

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa
    I will check that ...I think I was referring more to mixing in long incredibly agile lines with passing chords and subs in the lines then just wailing on long notes...almost like screaming Hendrix or Junior Walker (lol) on the long notes..

    Brecker did that and obviously it would have been child's play for CP or Coltrane to do it but maybe they were onto more 'serious' stuff ?

    On 'Coltrane Plays the Blues' it's very Blue and brilliant but he never just went into what Youtube calls ' beast mode'...or long wailing screaming stuff.

    I know you have studied these guys and even transcribed them so ...I will listen to CP

    Sorry for off topic .
    Your post made me think of Sidney Bechet



    The most important soprano player before Coltrane, and influence when Trane was getting into the instrument. And Bechet's beast mode is all about those long notes and the blues power. Like BB King, Clapton, Hendrix etc...

    Really reading your post, you may as well be talking about the dichotomy between many of the pre-war players (vocal inflections, colourful vibrato, long notes) and the modernist aesthetic of Parker (little vibrato, clean sound, linear improvisation.) We tend to concentrate sometimes on the road to Bird - Lester Young, Coleman Hawkins etc - but these harmonic linear and cooler players were counterpointed by a more bluesy, vocal tradition.

    The pre-war stylists eventually ended up playing R'n'B (and eventually rock and soul music), and 'Trane and many of the players of that generation hailed from that tradition as well as jazz (Gary Bartz, for instance.) So if we see rock'n'roll prefigured in 1940's and 50's Black dance music, does that make Coltrane very early fusion?

    And Coltrane is coming out of Johnny Hodges.

    Also, is it not possible to hear pre-figurations of Hendrix (and Miles's electric music) in Cootie William's wah wah mute stylings and trills?



    (I need to find some of the more extreme stuff he did, but this gives an idea of his style)

    Here he is alongside Charlie Christian:



    I don't think you can say this music isn't bluesy :-) And you can hear pre figurations of both bop and rock and roll in this stuff (some of my favourite music ever.)

    I tell you what, effects pedals are nothing new. Of course the horn players were the lead guitarists of the swing era, and the early electric guitar soloists were explicitly inspired by horn players. (And apparently early 18th century pianos had a pedal that would put brass mutes over the strings to make a more strident sound - distortion pedal?)

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Your post made me think of Sidney Bechet



    The most important soprano player before Coltrane, and influence when Trane was getting into the instrument. And Bechet's beast mode is all about those long notes and the blues power. Like BB King, Clapton, Hendrix etc...

    Really reading your post, you may as well be talking about the dichotomy between many of the pre-war players (vocal inflections, colourful vibrato, long notes) and the modernist aesthetic of Parker (little vibrato, clean sound, linear improvisation.) We tend to concentrate sometimes on the road to Bird - Lester Young, Coleman Hawkins etc - but these harmonic linear and cooler players were counterpointed by a more bluesy, vocal tradition.

    The pre-war stylists eventually ended up playing R'n'B (and eventually rock and soul music), and 'Trane and many of the players of that generation hailed from that tradition as well as jazz (Gary Bartz, for instance.) So if we see rock'n'roll prefigured in 1940's and 50's Black dance music, does that make Coltrane very early fusion?

    And Coltrane is coming out of Johnny Hodges.

    Also, is it not possible to hear pre-figurations of Hendrix (and Miles's electric music) in Cootie William's wah wah mute stylings and trills?



    (I need to find some of the more extreme stuff he did, but this gives an idea of his style)

    Here he is alongside Charlie Christian:



    I don't think you can say this music isn't bluesy :-) And you can hear pre figurations of both bop and rock and roll in this stuff (some of my favourite music ever.)

    I tell you what, effects pedals are nothing new. Of course the horn players were the lead guitarists of the swing era, and the early electric guitar soloists were explicitly inspired by horn players. (And apparently early 18th century pianos had a pedal that would put brass mutes over the strings to make a more strident sound - distortion pedal?)
    Regarding pedals, here is one interesting horn like. Mighty PTD Rotobone.

    Sent from my SM-C7000 using Tapatalk

  9. #58

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    Yes!..I heard that in Bechet's wide vibrato too... (how in the heck was that so well recorded way back when ? )



    Very interesting way ahead of their time Players all !

    I always thought Charlie Christian sounded very Rock and Roll and Bluesy and had cool Rhythmic Articulation..very skilled for his time .

    Bill Haley and the Comets sound like they listened to this stuff. The first rock shredder was on Rock Around the Clock was a Jazz Guitarist..who died not too long after the recording and I agree that this sounds like the first R&R came out of it.
    Or if not these recordings ..earlier C Christian perhaps.
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 09-08-2018 at 10:36 PM.

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Lot of alternate picking by the looks of it

    I was going to post a transcription of the picking/fingering/licks etc but since the lines are pretty wanky/ out of time that idea became a big chore.

    Some main themes that I saw:

    1. Classic downward pick slanting string changes (down stroke on new strings but it's really about the pick travelling out of the strings on the upstroke)

    2. a lot of the lines in the vid contain variations on the same swept 4 note arpeggio lick played U DDD or D(with a chromatic approach) D,D,D or D hammer,D,D (these 3 ex: string 5 has two notes, 4 one, 3 one) or D,D,D,U (ex: string 3 one note,2 one note,two notes on first string)

    3. mostly 3 finger technique

    4. quite a few hammer on and pull offs (that seem to be used in a standard way... not used to switch pick direction just used in lieu of a pick stroke.)


    Hope that helps for now, if i write up something cohesive, I'll post it.

  11. #60

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    Thanks for looking into it

  12. #61

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    I think the Bechet might be later than it sounds, 1950s? New Orleans jazz had a number of revivals, the first was in the swing era lol.

    EDIT: the album was released in 1964

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by bediles
    I was going to post a transcription of the picking/fingering/licks etc but since the lines are pretty wanky/ out of time that idea became a big chore.

    Some main themes that I saw:

    1. Classic downward pick slanting string changes (down stroke on new strings but it's really about the pick travelling out of the strings on the upstroke)

    2. a lot of the lines in the vid contain variations on the same swept 4 note arpeggio lick played U DDD or D(with a chromatic approach) D,D,D or D hammer,D,D (these 3 ex: string 5 has two notes, 4 one, 3 one) or D,D,D,U (ex: string 3 one note,2 one note,two notes on first string)

    3. mostly 3 finger technique

    4. quite a few hammer on and pull offs (that seem to be used in a standard way... not used to switch pick direction just used in lieu of a pick stroke.)


    Hope that helps for now, if i write up something cohesive, I'll post it.
    I've already explained how is he doing this.

    Sent from my SM-C7000 using Tapatalk

  14. #63

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    Here's that really fast line from GBs solo on the tune I'll Drink To That. Since I really don't know exactly how he played it (and some notes are pretty garbled), I just used what I've seen and heard to write the most efficient picking I could think of (within the style). There seems to be no way to achieve these speeds without some economy picking moves (duh).

    Chorus at 4:09
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  15. #64

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    We had a lesson with Peter Farrell on this song, this exact part when George use double time. Amazing solo.
    Love the Mr T's solo too.

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  16. #65

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    I didn’t know Mr T played guitar?

    Does he play
    One day in the life of a fool
    Take the ain’t gonna get get me on no damn fool train

    And other classics?

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I didn’t know Mr T played guitar?

    Does he play
    One day in the life of a fool
    Take the ain’t gonna get get me on no damn fool train

    And other classics?
    No, sax.

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  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikostep
    We had a lesson with Peter Farrell on this song, this exact part when George use double time. Amazing solo.
    Love the Mr T's solo too.

    Was the picking that you learned from Peter similar to what I wrote?? how does it differ?

    I'm super curious.

  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by bediles
    Was the picking that you learned from Peter similar to what I wrote?? how does it differ?

    I'm super curious.
    Pretty similar.

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    Last edited by mikostep; 09-23-2018 at 11:39 AM.

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikostep
    Pretty similar. Just a few corrections.

    Thanks a lot! Thanks for taking the time and printing/correcting my transcription.... (I haven't even printed it yet). Interesting that Peter would write every note as picked cause I swear I heard some slurs in there. It's great to get some info from the source!

    I may keep that B as a C in bar 4 because I'm a contrarian (but it totally is two Bs...damn)

    B.

  21. #70

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    Actually, slurs are welcomed if you keep the rest of the picking correct. Picked notes where you noticed slurs don't make harm if you use the way it's written. Often I different tempos, he doesn't slur similar or the same line.

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  22. #71

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    Yeah, that C seems more correct, but it's 2 Bs what he plays.

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  23. #72

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    Man, I was not looking at that first 2 16th note groupings. I should make few corrections there too. I'm not near those pages, I'll do it later and upload it.

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  24. #73

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    At a cursory glance it appears to for the rules of gypsy picking, and the use of even note numbers per string in descent optimise alternate picking for descent, if that make sense.

    By which I mean stochello Rosenberg would optimise things the same way.

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    Here you go and oops, he's clearly touching down, not floating.



    I picked up a couple of his masterclass videos. Very inexpensive and the improv/playing on them is worth the money alone.
    He mentions in a Video I saw the idea that in our practice routines we should play every note like it's Mozart or our best lines etc.

    And here we actually see hear a 335 elevated almost to a Concert Instrument- he makes those Arps and Patterns sound beautiful....

    It's almost legato , but with a soft articulation at the front end.

    I think he is an interesting Player, Classical time feel almost.

    Has a slight behind the beat feel...
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 03-18-2019 at 09:22 AM.