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Originally Posted by Philco
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08-17-2017 01:15 PM
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My 2c, for what it's worth:
When I play electric, I play mainly hybrid picking and legato. I have the amp, so for speed I tend to "cheat". I play from light to hard, depending on if I want to drive the sound/amp more or less. No rest strokes, mainly alternate picking with some hybrid fingerpicking on some runs.
On my selmer copy I tend play mainly "hard", ie. rest strokes, and tend to pick most of the notes (because even though you CAN make legato playing work also on acoustic, I haven't mastered it yet) mainly because it sounds the best.
And then there's the nylon string which I love to play also, mainly fingerstyle. I don't have any dedicated nails (because of my other hobbies), so to get a sharper sound I have to play pretty aggressive finger style rest strokes. Works pretty well to my ears, but I'm aware my Classical playing style is a vulgar blend of techniques from bass playing, electric guitar and classical/flamenco styles. For example, I pick it like I do on bass (still learning to use the thumb independently), base the guitar on my right leg gypsy/flamenco style and bend the strings like a blues player.
...so my point (if there was any) - different styles for different situations, I guess.
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Originally Posted by TKO
I have the same problem with no nails. As soon as I started doing the GJ thing they got shredded.
On the other hand long nails are a bit gross, so *shrugs*. On the occasions when I do fingerstyle (for instance I play a little Dowland in one band I do) the amplification compensates, and I'm not really going for a legit Segovia thing in this case anyway.
I think nailless classical playing can sound great and depending on the instrument project surprisingly well. It was the technique most widely used pre-Segovia.... But Rob Mckillop is your man for that....Last edited by christianm77; 08-19-2017 at 09:59 AM.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Of course, that's a solid-body guitar matched with a Marshall so it's an extreme example. On the other hand, sometimes you just gotta testify and there's no doubt a critical point where playing too lightly or rather not shaping a note adequately (which largely relies on the actions of the non-picking hand) gives the wimpy, unfocussed tone remarked upon by princeplanet.
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Originally Posted by PMB
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
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As for Peter Bernstein, I would say his picking is situation dependent.
Try taking youtube of players you like and slow down the video to 50% and watch the right hand. Speed it back up and listen to what comes out. Take a variety of situation (ballads, up-tempo bob, blues, etc).
For me, I'm always searching for that percussive polytone "pop". I tend to think of a guitar as a drum set with notes. Thin sounding does not resonate with me. For others, it sounds great.
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Originally Posted by PMB
But at least Beck knows more than 2 licks...
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Originally Posted by PMB
In either case, I'm very mindful of my picking hand. It's just that when amplified, I'm focusing on a soft attack unless I want grit and attack; when playing an acoustic, I know that everything relies on how I touch the instrument.Last edited by Thumpalumpacus; 08-21-2017 at 09:54 AM.
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Originally Posted by Carloscepinha
The People you mentioned above are all picking hard enough to play an Acoustic Guitar with .012s or .013s and get a ' normal medium volume 'Tone from it without adjusting to it.
I can tell Peter Bernstein for example despite being extremely Melodic and super skilled has a powerful , precise right hand when he picks.
Lage Lund is probably the softest of that Group - but he is still not sneaking across the strings with a floppy pick...
REMEMBER- they also have a softer attack
for Ghost Notes and smoother stuff but generally these Guys are NOT picking like
Yngvie Malmsteen ( great at what he does- but listen to him on Acoustic he does not fully energize the strings for Acoustic ).
There are Forum Members who have done
Master Classes with some of these People- so I will defer to them IF they say otherwise.
Generally- advanced Pickers ( even people like Guthrie Govan ) use heavier picks and control Angles and Depth .
You can still pick softly with a heavier pick.
HOWEVER- IF you sound good and like the results at present - don't change.
There are probably some Jazzers with a very light picking attack...but not any of those that you mentioned- the Rhythmic Precision in the Solos in Jazz requires a lot of right hand control .
Even Guthrie Govan who uses lighter strings has a quite powerful right hand .
You lower your pickups a bit and raise the action and get used to heavier picks for those you refer to.
Good demo here- I do not agree with needing pointy and do not agree with only letting a tiny amount of pick protrude which he says..but see the soft picking and the harder picking .
Jazz Guys and R&B Fusion Guys ( like me lol) and even most shredders usually use
COMMANDING TECHNIQUE on the Guitar - then back off when needed.
I realize that it is considered poor Forum etiquette to NOT post examples - but I speak from experience and anyone who swings precisely will need a firm technique in Practice .
And almost NONE of the Fusion Players from the 70s were/ are soft pickers.
Metheny is not even a soft picker on most notes at least in his practice routine :
I know less about him and his Music than most of you but I can hear it and see it and know what firm accurate picking sounds like .
Before you can back of on certain scales or patterns - they have to be nailed medium firm unless you are a legato player .
In the Rock World - Yngwie Malmsteen would probably be one of the few Master Pickers with a light picking attack - you can tell on some Acoustic clips ..sometimes sounds light medium on Acoustic.
You have to make the Guitar your Bitch to really play it ..THEN back off - this does not mean hard but medium firm at least in Practice till you can nail it THEN put the dynamics where you want
Above is exactly what I call medium firm it is not soft .
Neither is Benson .
Neither is Moreno .
Last edited by Robertkoa; 04-04-2018 at 08:51 PM.
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Most rock players I know prefer heavy picks. The stiffness aids control when playing fast passages.
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Originally Posted by Robertkoa
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Originally Posted by pkirk
I promise.
WEAKNESS- thin pick and weak right hand- you could NOT have been in that video.
We don't barely pick the string and have great Articulation and Timing- show me someone who does.
There's probably someone who has a very light attack and is great at playing Jazz but less than 1% and the OP asked about a few specific Players.
Even Guys with a smooth attack like Lage Lund or Metheny still have a firm grip on the pick and NEED it.
Never a close follower of Metheny - hearing this Video only this year I was shocked that his chops are this good -he's a force on the Guitar physically ( and musical skills he had at 18 , 19 etc.) as well as musically.
Forearms like a Drummer- lol.
Those of you with good ears will probably hear that even Metheny is NOT using a very light attack here.
I know all this from EXPERIENCE but you should be able to understand the logic of what I say.
Even people who pick Jazz with Thumb get a large callous at contact...
Guitar is a Violent Sport like Football and MMA ....lol...not really but just a tiny tiny bit.
And I have spent a lot of Time to learn to Play it Rough if needed .
I have sold Music to Ad Agencies in the Past...so not the Sensitive Artist Type... and don't mind being challenged - when the Time is right.
You want to choose the Place and Time ( deadline? -that's for Clients- you have to pay for that).
Polished Productions sell Music..not Mickey Mouse Phone Demos..by the way.Last edited by Robertkoa; 08-28-2017 at 11:51 AM.
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Originally Posted by Lobomov
So, arguably the fusion guitarist with the most incredible right hand alternate picking technique of all time was doing light/light. He also had absolutely insane tone with the Les Paul and Fender Twin setup on those early records.
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Originally Posted by ecj
And of ALL the people on the Planet you select Al DiMeola as someone who is Articulate on Guitar BUT uses a light picking attack ?
Shoe size / pick thickness aside have you listened to Al DiMeola ?
Have you played an Acoustic Guitar with a pick near the limits of it's dynamic range ?
Do you know what that sounds like ?
Paco was maybe closer than Al but they were both close to where you can pick harder - and it will barely get any louder - if it all that's the limit .
That is not indicative of a light picker.
That is indicative to to OP that he may want to pick harder to emulate most Jazz and Fusion Guitarists.Last edited by Robertkoa; 08-22-2017 at 02:42 PM.
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Originally Posted by Robertkoa
He definitely plays hard, but you can do that with a light pick on electric, I guess. Probably needed the heavier pick on acoustic to project.
Many of us have caught up to and surpassed DiMeola - especially vertically - that was 40 years ago..
Acoustic does not sound that way feather picking with a very light flexible pick.
Also, sometimes this forum, man. Please post a clip of you "surpassing" DiMeola's alternate picking technique. This place...
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Originally Posted by ecj
This is not 'The Forum's fault'.
It's me .
It was not nor IS it my Goal to play up and down Scales.
And my CD will have some speedy stuff but will NOT be a ' speedfest ' ear fatigueing CD throwback to the Fusion Era or the 80s Shred Era.
As I said there are thousands of people that can play scales ( not my Goal nor my main Musical Skill ) as fast as Al D did in the 70s.
Thousands. Me included -BFD.
The part that 'surpasses ' is the Vertical Application of Alt Picking and 'Swing' and other Rhythms in the Lines.
Specifically Al D did not Alt Pick triplets/septuplets in triads across 3 strings at similar Tempi to his ' Modes'.
Or cascade overlapping vertical patterns into smooth sheets of sound with Alt Picking- that's the ' surpass' part and Hard Swing Urban and some Polymetric Stuff..
And Rhythm Guitar will surpass..because they weren't even trying.
The speed isn't the main thing- the crosspicking is the 'Thing'.
And Rhythm Guitar and Voicings.
And I need a stiff pick to do it...and it took a long long long long Time to develop and stabilize.
And even though you are a big Hero of mine I am not lying to impress you ...lol.
As I' ve said before - it would be funnier and entertaining in some ways if I could barely play -but not the case...
I don't mind being challenged though- a reasonable request and possibly even a Marketing Tool.
I will Post what I want to and where I want to -when ready.
And you will probably think I am 'sweeping' or' Economy Picking' across the Strings- and I won't bother to debate with you..
A Business thing.
Anything else ?Last edited by Robertkoa; 08-23-2017 at 03:05 PM.
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Originally Posted by Robertkoa
Most phones can take vids, so no need to wait for your grand CD release.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Originally Posted by Robertkoa
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Originally Posted by destinytot
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Originally Posted by destinytot
Steve Morse is probably the most amazing ever at it, and can rip about as fast as folks sweep pick. Reg demonstrated doing this insanely fast on a thread I started about this topic a while ago.
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Cross picking can be ddu rather than alternate. This is the way Lage Lund, Chico Pinheiro and Clarence White do it.
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Originally Posted by ecj
EDIT: I asked whether cross-picking is a name for the picking technique Pasquale Grasso uses.
Originally Posted by JazzMuzakOriginally Posted by JazzMuzakLast edited by destinytot; 08-23-2017 at 07:08 PM. Reason: addition
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Originally Posted by destinytot
I don't think this has much to do with PGs technique though happy to corrected if wrong. PG is essentially what rock players would call an economy picker - at least that's what he covers in his lesson online.
Grant Green, What is This Thing
Today, 01:59 PM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading