The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    So, I decided to take the plunge and try to spend some time learning hybrid picking (I am a finger picker, exclusively and have been for some time). Seems to me that one has to understand and practice some very essential things in terms of (1) Digits available: and (2) # of strings skipped in use of digits available.


    Digits Available:

    P-pick
    M-middle finger
    A-annular (ring) finger
    C-pinky

    1. Digit combinations and permissible strings that can be skipped between any TWO digits:

    P-M/M-A/A-C---- can skip 0 or 1 string (65,54,43,32,21, 64, 53, 42, 31) 9 string combinations
    P-A/M-C----------can skip 1 or 2 strings (64, 53, 42, 31, 63, 52, 41) 7 string combinations
    P-C----------------can skip 2, 3 or 4 strings: 63, 52, 41, 62, 51, 61): 6 string combinations.

    2. Conventional open voiced 4 note chords we all know can be played PMAC
    3. P acts as a thumb and cover 654 while MAC can cover 321, 432, 543
    4. Closed voice triads can be played PMA, MAC
    5. Spread triads can be played: PMA, PMC, MAC

    Any other fundamental issues to work on? What do you think???

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Play tunes, provide your own accompanyment. It will teach you everything.

    Less is more. 3 note chords are big.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ
    So, I decided to take the plunge and try to spend some time learning hybrid picking (I am a finger picker, exclusively and have been for some time). Seems to me that one has to understand and practice some very essential things in terms of (1) Digits available: and (2) # of strings skipped in use of digits available.


    Digits Available:

    P-pick
    M-middle finger
    A-annular (ring) finger
    C-pinky

    1. Digit combinations and permissible strings that can be skipped between any TWO digits:

    P-M/M-A/A-C---- can skip 0 or 1 string (65,54,43,32,21, 64, 53, 42, 31) 9 string combinations
    P-A/M-C----------can skip 1 or 2 strings (64, 53, 42, 31, 63, 52, 41) 7 string combinations
    P-C----------------can skip 2, 3 or 4 strings: 63, 52, 41, 62, 51, 61): 6 string combinations.

    2. Conventional open voiced 4 note chords we all know can be played PMAC
    3. P acts as a thumb and cover 654 while MAC can cover 321, 432, 543
    4. Closed voice triads can be played PMA, MAC
    5. Spread triads can be played: PMA, PMC, MAC

    Any other fundamental issues to work on? What do you think???
    You are thinking too much. Pick for the bass. Middle finger and Ring finger for 2 carefully chosen harmonies. Mr Beaumont said less is more. 3 note chords are huge


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #4

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    ya, of course. that still leaves the principle technical issue: bringing the C finger into play to play the melody, note, as needed. When you play finger-style, the C finger is hardly EVER utilized. Most stuff you can get by with PIMA. I think some flamenco cats use the C, but really, practically speaking, it hardly gets used.

    I don't even have any nail on my C finger. It's weak and very undeveloped.

    Guess you gotta start somewhere.

  6. #5

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    I never use the pinky, I never miss it.

  7. #6

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    Well, as the British say, "I had a go" and boy was I humbled. It reminded me how natural it has become for me to play with the fingers where I don't have to think about anything.

    I incorporate a lot of wide intervals in my playing, especially 13ths and 10ths. I noticed that it wasn't the top note that sounded bad, but the plectrum picked note in the bass. More coordination is needed, of course.

    It is also quite natural for me to play four note block (plucked) chords with the fingers , and for this in a hybrid fashion, you really do need the Pinky, or C finger .

    So I went and practiced a lot of three note chords using only MAC. It sounded like shit. Maybe also less shitty tomorrow. And a little less after that .

  8. #7

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    Just brush two strings with the ring finger. Pinky''s completely unnecessary.

    If you need more, strum. You're holding a pick!

    What kind of pick are you using? Took me a long time to find one that sounds most like a finger, to keep balance.

  9. #8

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    Small heavy teardrop pick, no brand in particular--it had my old teacher's name on it.

    I'm not really talking about strumming or even playing lines with the pick, that's still somewhat ingrained and coming back readily.

    It's the idea of playing 2,3 or 4 notes simultaneously that will take more work getting comfortable. Strumming is natural, using the pick to play lines is natural, playing fingerstyle is natural.

    I guess my fingers are so used to moving in a certain way, in tandem or independently, they need to get "reprogrammed" to work a bit differently.

    Basically, I figured out that I have much more TENSION in the right hand holding the pick and playing the fingers than I do fingers only. Makes sense, I've been 100% playing fingers only for a few years now and have gotten quite comfortable doing it.

    When I started playing fingers only, I worked really hard at developing some semblance of a classical technique with the right hand, so I worked a lot on finger independence and relaxation, using various combinations, making sure to always alternate unless slurring, etc.

    It's just going to take some time getting comfortable with this. I've never brushed two notes with the A finger of the right hand, I'll give it a shot.

    Like anything else, the more you do it, the less uncomfortable it will become.

    What ever happened to the "Time on the Instrument" guy? Pierre?

  10. #9

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    When I got into some hybrid I focused more on simple comping things and making sure my time was as tight as possible, as my fingers have a little slower of a trigger than my pick.

    I also spend some time doing Giuliani's studies with PIMA replaced with "P"MAC for hybrid.

    Some great players like this book a lot: Hybrid Picking for Guitar (Book & CD): Gustavo Assis-Brasil: 9780977439805: Amazon.com: Books
    I borrowed it once and it didn't catch my attention much, but something to look into.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ
    I'm not really talking about strumming or even playing lines with the pick, that's still somewhat ingrained and coming back readily.

    It's the idea of playing 2,3 or 4 notes simultaneously that will take more work getting comfortable.
    I use MAC, with and without pick.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ
    Small heavy teardrop pick, no brand in particular--it had my old teacher's name on it.

    I'm not really talking about strumming or even playing lines with the pick, that's still somewhat ingrained and coming back readily.

    It's the idea of playing 2,3 or 4 notes simultaneously that will take more work getting comfortable. Strumming is natural, using the pick to play lines is natural, playing fingerstyle is natural.

    I guess my fingers are so used to moving in a certain way, in tandem or independently, they need to get "reprogrammed" to work a bit differently.

    Basically, I figured out that I have much more TENSION in the right hand holding the pick and playing the fingers than I do fingers only. Makes sense, I've been 100% playing fingers only for a few years now and have gotten quite comfortable doing it.

    When I started playing fingers only, I worked really hard at developing some semblance of a classical technique with the right hand, so I worked a lot on finger independence and relaxation, using various combinations, making sure to always alternate unless slurring, etc.

    It's just going to take some time getting comfortable with this. I've never brushed two notes with the A finger of the right hand, I'll give it a shot.

    Like anything else, the more you do it, the less uncomfortable it will become.

    What ever happened to the "Time on the Instrument" guy? Pierre?
    Yep, practice is it, for sure.

    Do experiment with pick materials...you'll be surprised what a difference that makes.

    And do practice playing two strings with a ring finger "brush" upward, it's very doable.

  13. #12

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    c finger is very useful. from an engineering standpoint, the more points of contact, the more possibilities. if you want to really get into hybrid styles, pick and 3 digits are better and easier in the long run. I'm reasonably sure that pianists use 10 digits. Should we tell them that's too many?

  14. #13

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    Ya, Ron . I just got home and spent one and a half hours practicing, basically attempting to do everything I can do regarding 3 or 4 note BLOCK chords without the pick with the pick. I mean, if you can't do the same things, it seems it will be better just to go back to finger style . Basically this means replacing PIMA with PMAC or IMA with MAC or PMA. I play a lot of what is drop two and four major or minor 6 block chords , whoch means strings 54 and 21, skipping 3. At this point, I have to learn how to use the C finger. It certainly is better than yesterday , thankfully. I think if I can replicate what I can do With the fingers (PIMA ), added bonus is the ability to use the pick for strumming and for lines.

    playing 2 note wide intervals (e.g., 10ths and 13ths ) with the pick and usually the A finger was not as hard as I thought it would be.

    Progesss.
    ' I tried to use the A finger to "brush" to strings, but that's gonna take a lot of work .

    Also, I realized I had another pick, a thick white pick with grooves --- I think it was a gypsy guitar pick that I paid 10 bucks for at this gypsy guitar shop in Lincoln Square years ago. That's a lot of money to spend on the pick, but somehow I've kept it for many years .

  15. #14

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    You need to develop a system for your practicing. I've been working on this for about 6 weeks, and I created or borrowed exercises from the classical guitar world. Working with your pick and each individual finger (both alternating and together), then groups of two fingers, then all 3 using a variety of arpeggio combinations works well. i would suggest that the Giuliani exercises be compressed to 4 adjacent strings to start, I often warm up with just open string patterns before engaging the left hand. I do recommend the Assis-Brasil "Hybrid Picking For Guitar" as it is very exhaustive in developing a good technique and moves along at a manageable pace.

    I was a classical-flamenco-jazz fingerstyle player for many years, but developed focal dystonia, a neurological condition, that took my right-hand technique away, especially control of my index finger, so this is a good solution for me, and using all three remaining fingers with the pick allows me to play easy classical pieces for wedding ceremonies, which have always provided a good portion of my income. This technique also is very useful for exploring Mick Goodrick's Mr. Goodchord ideas as well.

    Also, my studies in trying to overcome the focal dystonia showed me that the little finger ("c") is much stronger and more flexible than anyone might imagine, because of the way the hand is structured. I find it easier to use than the a finger in many cases.
    Last edited by ronjazz; 03-15-2017 at 09:24 AM.

  16. #15

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    BTW: Pasquale plays octaves and intervals (2 note voicings) using the Pick for the bass note and alternates the M and A for the upper note.

    I make no bones about the fact that I want to play as much as possible like him, so that's why I decided to switch from finger to hybrid. He has everything in his arsenal and he plays so beautifully and sounds so GREAT as well.

    I also note that stuff I forgot about with regard to the pick (within the framework of single note lines) and picking with the pick--all that stuff about alternate picking v directional/economy picking and picking from the elbow v picking from the wrist v picking from the two fingers that hold the pick (the P and I)--Jesus, so much stuff to re-learn. I was glad to learn that a lot of it's kind of coming back to me.

    I think I agree with him: economy picking makes perfect sense otherwise you sound like a machine. Johnny Smith picked from the elbow; most people use the wrist as the focus of control; Pasquale focuses on the P and I to get the most control.

    So, what am I really saying? PASQUALE is the MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

  17. #16

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    Or you could use a thumbpick, the Fred Kelly Bumblebee for example, so as not to give up what you already know about fingerstyle but have the ability to grip it like a flatpick when that's the sound you want: Lenny Breau, Lorne Lofsky, etc.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz
    Or you could use a thumbpick, the Fred Kelly Bumblebee for example, so as not to give up what you already know about fingerstyle but have the ability to grip it like a flatpick when that's the sound you want: Lenny Breau, Lorne Lofsky, etc.
    I actually tried that a couple years ago. Didn't like it, didn't feel natural as far as the thumb pick was concerned (I used a banjo thumb pick), the tone was lacking, and, moreover, at this point, I think a flatpick, with its natural up-down pendulum feel and essence would be faster, more clean and more articulate for singe-note lines.

    The trick, from a technical point of view, is to seamlessly switch from lines to block chords to intervals to strummed *arpeggiated* chords. That's why I think it's vital to not maintain the pick at a similar angle all the time--it should be context specific, depending on if it's executing a downstroke-upstroke-chord-interval, etc.

    I've spent the last few days getting some preliminary technical work done--even at work, when I'm away from the guitar, I'll hold a pick and practice the basic tactile dexterity of the pick and fingers virtually playing a four-note block chord. It's coming along. I feel excited about it. Naturally, it won't really come together in full until I've developed the basic nail on the C finger (pinky).

  19. #18

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    NSJ, sounds like you might find the Chuck Wayne approach to picking interesting. He wrote several volumes on playing jazz guitar including a hybrid picking style that could be used for classical type playing. The structure of his chord forms, picking technique, etc., was quite developed. Unfortunately I haven't found any good videos showings right hand technique in action.

    And of course watching Ed Bickert videos can be helpful in terms of watching a very smooth, relaxed hybrid picker in action.

  20. #19

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    A modified thumb pick strategy I find useful:

    1.Cut the tip and file it so it is short (~3-4 mm).
    2.For better upstrokes and for long single note lines, grasp the thumbpick with your index finger (or index and middle finger)
    3.For classical style, slide the thumb pick back slightly (with your index and middle fingers) and use your thumb/thumbnail.

  21. #20

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    I comp a lot on electric using hybrid picking. The sound I hear in my head is that of Ed Bickert. I wish I'd been practicing guitar on the occasions I got to play with Ed. It was always big band gigs where I was playing saxophone.

    I like the immediate, non-arpeggiated response from comping with hybrid picking. The single note lines with the pick pop out nicely, so when I use this technique, I don't have to mess with the guitar volume all the time.

  22. #21

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    Been mostly using thumb recently, but this thread inspired me to use Pasquale's grip with a D'Andrea teardrop on Tele tonight. I'm pleased with the sound and I'm going to keep at it.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz
    c finger is very useful. from an engineering standpoint, the more points of contact, the more possibilities. if you want to really get into hybrid styles, pick and 3 digits are better and easier in the long run. I'm reasonably sure that pianists use 10 digits. Should we tell them that's too many?
    I agree. The more fingers you can use then the more playing options you can incorporate. Not easy using the pinky finger though. It can feel alien to players using it for the first time and it may not be as mobile as other picking fingers. Albert Lee uses the all fingers technique......and very good he sounds too.

  24. #23

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    If it hasn't already been stated, pace yourself when introducing the RH pinky. If you haven't used it before, it's not ready to be shredding with the rest of them and it's easy to encounter strain issues if you ask it to do too much too quickly.

  25. #24

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    Although I'm pretty new to hybrid picking, I am a long-time classical/flamenco player, so I have taken the main rule from that practice: go slowly enough so that your brain learns the right moves. In my case, I work alternating in both scale passages and moving between strings (pick-middle, pick-ring, pick little). Doing similar exercises incorporating two RH fingers alternating with pick, then all 3, starting very slowly and working up (using the metronome) has generated good results in only a few weeks. My little finger has come along very well, it seems to be more independent and flexible than the "a" finger, in fact. I'm working out a routine of several exercises done for about 15 minutes each, increasing the metronome speed on a daily basis rather than with each repetition; this is the best way to get the movements etched into your brain without practicing mistakes.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz
    Although I'm pretty new to hybrid picking, I am a long-time classical/flamenco player, so I have taken the main rule from that practice: go slowly enough so that your brain learns the right moves. In my case, I work alternating in both scale passages and moving between strings (pick-middle, pick-ring, pick little). Doing similar exercises incorporating two RH fingers alternating with pick, then all 3, starting very slowly and working up (using the metronome) has generated good results in only a few weeks. My little finger has come along very well, it seems to be more independent and flexible than the "a" finger, in fact. I'm working out a routine of several exercises done for about 15 minutes each, increasing the metronome speed on a daily basis rather than with each repetition; this is the best way to get the movements etched into your brain without practicing mistakes.
    This sounds positive.Think I'll stick with this style a bit longer.