The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Anyone in here who has any tips/experience in this style of playing?





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    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpG...ehpkEjhFsr-FZQ

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    When Wes invented this "style", he claimed he had aches for years figuring it out. My advice is go easy on the Nurofen.

  4. #3

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  5. #4

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    Well I use LH fingers 1 and 3 when the octave spans 3 frets, and fingers 1 and 4 when it spans 4 frets, that's my only tip.

    You can also span 2 octaves by putting 1st finger on 6th string and 3rd or 4th finger on 1st string, at the same fret. Wes did this very occasionally, it's on one of the live 'airshot' recordings ("Here's That Rainy Day" as I recall).

    Octave playing hurt quite a bit when I first did it. Took a long time for the LH muscles to get used to the strain. You just have to do it a lot.

    It can also be a bit confusing as to locating the correct fret for the note, do you mentally focus on the first finger or the 3rd/4th finger? I'm not sure which I do, if I think about it too much I can't do it!

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by TiagoMiguel
    Anyone in here who has any tips/experience in this style of playing?





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    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpG...ehpkEjhFsr-FZQ
    Unfortunately: No, I have no advice. I rarely use octaves in soloing for whatever reason, just once in a while to 'underline' a melody. And I'm definitely NOT about copying Wes or anyone else at this stage.

    Thinking about this now, to get a different, non-guitar perspective generally guitarists might look into transcribing (or 'copping' by ear) octaves played by, say, pianists. Just a thought. Or if you want to stay with the guitar 'hood' perhaps classical pieces. Or, back to jazz, figure out one's own fingerings and approach by trial and error.

    To paraphrase Monk (speaking of Bud Powell):

    'Why get stuck with that Wes Montgomery style?'

    (My words now) There was only one Wes. And only one YOU. Sounds like you're making out pretty well, anyway, from the vid...
    Last edited by fasstrack; 10-21-2016 at 05:27 PM.

  7. #6

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    I started using octaves when I was a kid. I was a big Wes fan, for sure, but I liked how it thickened up my sound and so I could play fewer notes and be more lyrical. Its handy to have some ways to play without chops while you're building chops, so I used it.

    I think from the top down when I'm playing them. On the top E and B strings, your octaves will finger 1-4, but when you cross over to the G string for the top note, the octaves finger 1-3, so work out that area of the guitar because that's where you want to be smooth.

    I'm also up out of first position when I'm playing octaves. In the middle of fretboard between the 5th and 12th frets are the easiest to play because you are just sliding up and down and crossing over strings, but always in the 1-4 or 1-3 fingering. Down in the lower positions, there are a lot of other fingerings, and it gets too tricky for it to be simple, and this is simple.

    Play yourself a slow blues and experiment with lines you can double easily and go from there. If you are listening to Wes, you've already got a good model to follow

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    When Wes invented this "style", he claimed he had aches for years figuring it out. My advice is go easy on the Nurofen.
    I remember reading an interview where he said the thing that hurt was his head.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Binyomin
    I remember reading an interview where he said the thing that hurt was his head.
    yes, because of the intonation on his guitar I think he said!


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  10. #9

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    FWIW, I believe Jimmy Bruno said that he focuses on the higher string/finger while playing octaves...

  11. #10

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    Many use the first and fourth fingers on the treble strings, the first and third on the lower strings, while Wes - if i remember correctly - used the first and fourth throughout. The open strings are deadened. The rest is trying to keep your left hand as relaxed as possible, and training, training...

    Django Reinhardt used the fingering of classical guitar players that results in a different sound; not so fat, smooth and percussive.

    It's always welcome (for me) to think outside the box. Wes did not invent the 'Wes' octave fingering. Well, perhaps he did for himself, but he was not the first one to do so.
    The violin wizard Paganini (1782-1840) loved the crazy legato octave playing "à la Wes". While he was neurotically anxious to protect his concertos against intellectual theft (so he used to hand over the notes directly and personally to the orchestral musicians right before the rehearsal or performance took place, just to collect them again immediately afterwards), he early published the studies op. 1 in the printing, the effect of which to colleagues did not miss: many considered them strictly to be unplayable.
    If you look at the notes and some given fingering of, for example, the Caprice no. 3, op.1, you find the 'Wes' octave playing (jump to 4:40)




    Musically, jazz did never develop in the airless space or in completely new spheres (perhaps Thelonious Sphere Monk excepted) ...let's see when octave trills are going to find their way into the playing of another guitar great.
    Please, note that the Caprices have to be considered to be extremely virtuosic, though unwieldy exercise material. These were not intended to show off in a musical, but far more in a technical tremendous way. To be honest, I can understand why a very few non-admirers of Paganini declared some of his playing, likely the over the top legato octaves, to be like 'il canto del gatto'. Paganini was also - though more in private - a great guitar player; it's clear that much of his violin compositions were derived from the possibilities that the guitar has to offer.
    Last edited by Ol' Fret; 10-22-2016 at 06:14 AM.

  12. #11

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    Octaves are great when playing acoustic guitar and you need a bit more oomph but don't want to go full chord solo. Django may have been the first guitarist to use them in jazz, and Wes credits him with giving him the idea, although Wes used them in a very different way.

    Earl Hines was noted for using octaves in the right hand of his piano style. People called this 'trumpet style.' Again - more oomf?

    Re: Django I cannot see with his disability and right hand technique how he could possibly have used the classical fingerings. It seems more likely to me that he used a locked hand style like Wes.

    Playing octaves in position is an excellent exercise for left hand.
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-22-2016 at 09:58 AM.

  13. #12

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    Wes used 1st and 3rd fingers on the lower strings, you can see this in some of the videos on YouTube.

  14. #13

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    Grab a copy of Jordan Klemons's Masters thesis and wax melodic with quadrads in octaves.

  15. #14

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    I'll watch your vid later (listening to Schubert right now) but is the quadrad thing the triad + tension note thing? I like that.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I'll watch your vid later (listening to Schubert right now) but is the quadrad thing the triad + tension note thing? I like that.
    Yes - really exciting. Bring melodic + rhythmic sensibility and groove your way to instant bliss.