The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    This is Wyatt Rice, Tony's little brother. I too use scalpel picking which I came to via just trying to figure out what works for me, never knew other people did it or that there was a name for it.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I have always been interested in the way Pat Metheny holds the pick. I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about it.
    This from an Adan Levy interview
    METHENY ON HIS ILLOGICAL PICKING

    When you hear Pat Metheny's fluid improvised lines-often zooming by at a swift clip-it's hard to imagine he believes his picking technique leaves much to be desired.

    "When I watch Pat Martino play, his picking technique is the most efficient thing I've ever seen," says Metheny. "There's very little movement, and it's very practical. My technique is absolutely illogical."

    "People often ask me why I hold the pick backwards. The reason is I could only get Fender Thin picks in Lee's Summit, Missouri, where I grew up. I couldn't stand the way those picks sounded, so I learned to hold them backwards-with the round edge towards the strings-and to bend the edge a little between my thumb and two fingers. That made the thin pick sound more like a medium."

    "I didn't see any really good guitar players when I was starting out, because there weren't many around my town. When I finally did see guys who could really play, I thought, 'Wow, I'm picking all wrong!' But by then it was too late, because I was already making records. I do think about taking a month off and studying with someone like Frank Gambale, because there are things I can't quite do, which I could do if I had a more efficient picking technique."

  4. #28

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    This focuses on how to hold the pick (for these styles of picking).


  5. #29


    This guy has what I consider to be the best and most concise video about "scalpel picking" etc. It's specifically geared towards metal, but the technique is also good for jazz as I'm sure we've all realised by now.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun
    This guy has what I consider to be the best and most concise video about "scalpel picking" etc. It's specifically geared towards metal, but the technique is also good for jazz as I'm sure we've all realised by now.
    Interesting. The part about the index finger, not the thumb, initiating movement is something I had not heard before, but when I have played around with this, that's what it feels like to me.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Interesting. The part about the index finger, not the thumb, initiating movement is something I had not heard before, but when I have played around with this, that's what it feels like to me.
    I don't agree with him on this though. Index pull, thumb push. He may get away with just letting the grip slide back down after index pull on thin strings and distortion, but likely not on heavy strings and clean sound Can't know what it feels like to other people though!

    It doesn't seems like these metal-guys are using much force, and with a pointy tip they hardly need to move that pick at all. The principle of letting index and thumb run free still works on heavy stringed acoustic guitars though. It's actually the approach that gets me the most powerful and dynamic picking force.

    Here's another guy using a scalpel


  8. #32
    See, when I scalpel pick, I use the extending motion of the index finger for down strokes, and the flexing motion for the upstroke. The thumb is mostly along for the ride, maintaining the grip on the pick.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun
    See, when I scalpel pick, I use the extending motion of the index finger for down strokes, and the flexing motion for the upstroke. The thumb is mostly along for the ride, maintaining the grip on the pick.
    Yeah, we may obviously have different ways of doing things, or perceiving things. The thumb gives downward force though, and feels active in my grip

  10. #34

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    Here it is on an acoustic.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Runepune
    I don't agree with him on this though. Index pull, thumb push. He may get away with just letting the grip slide back down after index pull on thin strings and distortion, but likely not on heavy strings and clean sound Can't know what it feels like to other people though!
    When I heard him say all the motion was from the index, I didn't take that literally. He may have meant it that way but I heard it is a point of emphasis, or concentration. As in, "focus on the motion from the index finger."

    Or, to sound pretentious, the difference b/w an analytical and real disctinction. We know the difference between butter and toast but when we eat buttered toast, the distinction blurs. We can't taste JUST the butter or JUST the toast---we're tasting both.

    So I'm thinking that when playing, I can't suss out what amount of motion is generated by the thumb and what amount is generated by the index. I'm really not even trying. For me, now, it's simply, "Pay attention to the index, see what's happening there."

    Perhaps in time I will be able to make finer distinctions and realize that, by gosh, the index is doing all the work and the thumb's just along for the ride.

    One thing I do notice now is that my picking motions are much smaller and I think that's a good thing. We'll see where this goes....

    Really enjoying this thread and the different takes on things. Encouraging, creative, honest.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by srlank

    Here it is on an acoustic.
    Thanks! That exercise is a new one on me. I'll try it later. Really working on this "scalpel" thing this way. Curiously, a few things that Pebber points out as being "so hard to correct" are things that I once had the habit of doing, and one that I still have a tendency to drift into if I don't watch myself. ;o)

  13. #37

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    This is an interesting thread. I've played for a long time and have only started thinking about my picking technique (flat) for the past few years. I practice alternate but don't think about it much when I'm actually
    playing. I have noticed that I use a lot of what I've just learned is scalpel picking. I had thought it might
    be a weakness but now I know. It's good to get validated.

  14. #38

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    It is difficult to obtain an even picking with this technique but I would never say something against anything Pasquale Grasso does with a guitar.

  15. #39

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    I mentioned in an earlier post that I first heard about circle or scalpel picking from a Roy Buchanan interview. I found the section from that interview on line.

    "Another way to get speed is with circle picking. Larry Coryell uses it, and so does John McLaughlin. It's an old jazz technique, really. There's a guy in Washington, D.C. named Frank Mullin who teaches it, and he says it takes two or three years to develop.

    To circle pick, all you do is start by playing with your pick at an angle. (For example, if the face of your guitar were like a clock with the string connected between the 12 and the six, the plectrum would be angled so as to form a line between the two and the eight.) You hit the string with one edge of the pick, but then you'll find you're in position to come back on the up-stroke with the opposite edge. You alternate the pick, then, with a rotating motion in either a counterclockwise or clockwise circle. The pick, while not changing its angle in relation to the string, is circling that area of the string. It's not done with the wrist, but with the fingers holding the pick. When first learning, you start with a large circle, just to get the feeling. After a while, you'll get so it's not even an obvious circle. It becomes a feeling. You can get two or three notes going so fast it's like a quiver. The reason it's faster is because your picking motion -- as a circle -- is not interrupted for a change in direction. You're not stopping abruptly to change direction as you would in a straight up-and-down motion. The circle also gives the notes a flowing quality.

    You can use this style of picking for one or a number of strings for lead. You can also use a large circle on an entire chord to get a flowing background rhythm.
    [Listen to "Thank You, Lord" on Roy Buchanan, Second Album for an example of circle rhythm.]"


    Now with that said even Roy Buchanan didn'y use this technique exclusively and having seen John Mac up close he didn't use it then or today. The only thing that ended up in my picking is the downward slant. I tried the upward slant of GBs style at the risk of being attacked by the Benson pickers, I don't find it more advantageous than the downward slant. That is not to take anything away from GB but GB can pick faster with his thumb than more folks can play with a pick.

    Anyway, check out the video below at the 1:38 mark.



  16. #40

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    When using this technique, wouldn't you have to use a different motion for changing strings.....wrist, arm, etc?

  17. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by srlank
    When using this technique, wouldn't you have to use a different motion for changing strings.....wrist, arm, etc?
    If you watch Pasquale Grasso the motion he uses when changing the strings is mostly from his elbow - you can see that in the video linked below.