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i was wondering if there are any techinques you can do with your left or right hand to make a guitar solo line sound smooth like a saxophone, its just the whole sound of playing a string instrument feels like it dosent fit the style of jazz, it sounds too jagged and thorny, any suggestions?
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04-24-2016 01:25 AM
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OK -So here's EJ and then
Coltrane doing a Version of the same tune.
So ' Sounding Like' a Sax
Player can be in some ways achieved with a Singing Tone with a bit of gain/ sustain digital delay and controlling attack at the front of the note with a softer but rhythmically precise pick attack.
It takes some skill but regardless of skill level -it's much harder to do on an Acoustic Guitar - because it's hard to get the Notes to bloom and swell after the ( softer ) attack needed.
And many Guitarists with chops are afraid of long notes -Sax Players really mix it up .
Straight Jazz Players -the good ones often play Horn -like lines but
actually 'sounding ' like a Sax is usually Rock or Fusion Players or people like Larry Carlton etc. and even some Hendrix has a somewhat Sax like Tonality- moreso than an Archtop or Acoustic anyway.
Alan Holdsworth sometimes has a somewhat Sax like Tone.
No one has nailed it exactly of course.
Then there is the Timing issue- most Rock and Fusion Players don't swing like Jazz Sax Players and most don't do Rhythmic Figures as well as Sax Players do.
But they do get the wailing tone with vibrato that suggests Sax - but the Timing ...not quite yet.
And the Great Jazz Guys like Benson with amazing skills and Time Sense- he seems to prefer the "classic" Jazz Tone as many Jazzers do. I love Benson just as he is...
On the clip above - IF Eric Johnson tightened up the Timing and threw in some long notes and lowered the Gain a little - I imagine he could get closer to Coltrane's version- but he's kind of doing an EJ slightly rocked out version- also the Rhythm Section is a bit different but cool more Cream -like( not tight like Jazz or R&B ) than a' breathing 'section but EJ is a brilliant Player...probably likes it this way.
Something in between a Classic Jazzer like Benson and EJ could get quite close- you need a LOT of skill mostly and Time sense...to even get close to monster Sax Players like Coltrane or Michael Brecker...
If you listen to ' Beat It' with EVH you hear him sounding a lot like a wailing R&B Sax Player...tight timing...wide intervals..harmonics a bit like Junior Walker ( but way more Notes) fluid smooth attack etc. and very free -Sax Players usually sound much more' free' and wild yet more in the GROOVE than Guitarists....
Also Benson for example is Never too loud in the mix...'Beat It' had EVH in the Groove and in the Mix- not too loud...don't' Karaoke' yourself- sustain and groove - not loud volume....Last edited by Robertkoa; 04-27-2016 at 06:03 PM.
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Robertkoa pretty much covers it. A light touch, some light gain to achieve soft-knee compression, some tone-shaping, and above all, phrasing - not licks per se but phrases formed as if sung. Let them breathe.
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Are you familiar with Kurt Rosenwinkel's playing? He's perhaps the most "saxophonistic" single-note line player in the history of jazz, imho.
Originally Posted by zaidkm
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With left hand you plug the cable, with right you turn up gain, with right foot you step on Fuzz Box. Originally Posted by zaidkm
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jim hall is the whole deal here - if you're into mainstream of course
thin strings - tuned down a tone? - lots of vertical playing and loads of legato techniques - and a bit of bending
he manages to make mainstream jazz guitar sound more fluid or liquid than anyone
and he regularly said it was one of his main aims
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I think of Allan Holdsworth as the most saxophonic guitarist.
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Originally Posted by P.J.
Yes. Holdsworth is a good example What a great word 'Saxophonic !' !
Trademark that word.
Someone mentioned Kurt Rosenwinkle and I listened to him- he is very Saxophonic also .
Listen to the Intro Solo only -
Then this:
If you played Coltrane's lines with
Jimi's 'Watchtower' tone and smooth but clear non attack and almost clean like Jimi...
It would be Saxophonic also.
Jimi is fairly Saxophonic on that Track without much gain - and without tons of EFX.
If you could improvise like Coltrane on that Album...you'd win a Grammy anyway...Tone or not...
I never listened all the way through
'My Favorite Things ' Album...wow.Last edited by Robertkoa; 04-29-2016 at 09:37 PM.
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The players with a bunch of pedals don't sounds like a sax because all those pedal suck the dynamics and life out of the lines. It helps them achieve legato but not in a natural sounding way.
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Different ears, humans, so interesting. To mine Holdsworth and Rosenwinkel in the least like a horn player category.
Jimi, yes of course he has that magic that a Lee Morgan etc have.
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I'm in such a different place. I bought some Eric Johnson records years ago. ("Tones" was probably the first one.) He can play and I enjoy some of his stuff, but if I walked into a club and the first thing I heard a guitarist do was "Mr. PC" like that, I would turn and walk out. To me, that is unlistenable.
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Right On Brother Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Yes. Rhythmically this has nothing to do with Coltrane's version or the Vocal version. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
'Sounding ' like a horn player in terms of ADSR - attack- decay - sustain- release and general Tone is one thing and having the Musical/ Rhythmic/ Expressive skills and feel of a Master Jazz Musician Soloing - especially like Coltrane is an entirely different thing altogether.
Conversely - many great Jazz Guitarists in Interviews used to talk about 'sounding like a horn player' in Guitar Player Magazine...and while some of them played horn like lines ...they didn't
'sound' like a horn ...really.
If you have ever triggered really good Sax samples with a Sampler - it 'sounds'
a lot a like a Sax- but really playing Solos like
a good or especially a great Sax Player is a whole different Level.
You can play and program Horn Sections or String Sections convincingly on a Keyboard with Samples....but Soloing like Paganini or Coltrane on a Keyboard won't happen...even if you're Herbie Hancock.
Most Rock and Legato Players don't swing.
Most Jazz Guitarists don't have the wailing tones of Sax Players....and when they do....they mentally hit some switch and play like a Rocker...lol.
And the Audiences for the two Markets are somewhat different- but if Holdsworth who is very highly regarded suddenly started swinging and playing all types of rhythmic figures in the groove in his solos- no one would complain....but most tappers don't have a lot of swing and groove in their Solos
( Stanley Jordan etc.).
I don't think the 'Ultimate Goal' for Guitar Playing is to sound like a Sax or Accordion or Bagpipe anyway...
The Guitar is so expressive on it's own ..lots of nuances to explore.Last edited by Robertkoa; 04-30-2016 at 12:01 PM.
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I agree. Curiously, Barney Kessel said that some people standing outside a club where Charlie Christian was playing inside assumed they were hearing a saxophone.... Originally Posted by Robertkoa
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Well, you hear those live recordings where Charlie is cranked up, distorting...I can see that, maybe.
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Also, people in those days weren't expecting to hear guitar as a lead instrument. They expected to hear horns in that role That was part of it. But man, Charlie could play. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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I am surprised nobody mentioned John Scofield. He alternates between saxophone-like leads and organ-like comping. In this clip, Steve Swallow makes the bass guitar sound like a saxophone too.
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If I could still hold up my '55 Conn 10M 'Naked Lady' I'd say I subscribe to this; but I can't so I won't.
Wind instruments mean you need to try & form every note. You can be much lazier on a guitar, and I am.
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I think of this. Listen to the solo starting about 4:30.
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Don't play some sh*t just because you can! Play as if you have to breathe between phrases; that should greatly help you to play phrases. Originally Posted by zaidkm
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T100_guy,
Is your name a motorcycle reference?
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Or maybe a reference to a Yamaha / Soldano Tube Amp ? Originally Posted by rabbit
Either way T100 I liked the Holdworth Clip- it was quite Saxophonic..
I think we all agree you gotta be good on Guitar to be Saxophonic.
Sharp observation on Charlie Christian-earlier in the Thread he seemed to have a nice slight warm overdrive on his Tone- he was one of those leaps Guitar sometimes takes ( whether Jazz, Rock , Blues)...
I think it will be more interesting to phrase like horn players sometimes..
mix up 8ths and 16ths triplets quintuplets sextuplets and play them rhythmically and mix in wide intervals etc.
Rather than just be another guy with a Fuzz Tone ...Last edited by Robertkoa; 05-14-2016 at 09:31 AM.
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This Jazz Guitar thing definitely is not for me. I did not have a slightest thought about saxophone while listening to that solo. It was pure (electric) guitarist stuff ... gliss ... pull-off ... volume swell ... vibrato ... bend .... name it ... some of it not even for real, but electronically simulated, FX ...
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No, it's an old Guild hollow-body! Love it to death, so resonant. Originally Posted by rabbit
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=guild+t-100+guitar&iax=1&ia=images
Which song? Not the Holdsworth?! Man that is one of the most saxophonic tones I've ever heard! Now that Eric Johnson, erm... lots of notes, yes, but saxophonic? Delay? Trebley distortion? Not so much. Originally Posted by Vladan
Last edited by T100_guy; 05-04-2016 at 06:17 PM.
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This...
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