Ron Eschete on learning the guitar neck

[lawson-stone]

Perhaps I ought to have asked first. If I've caused any harm, I'll apologise - and clear up any mess.

Just sent to Ron Eschete:
Dear Ron Eschete,

Warm and friendly greetings from this fan in Valencia, Spain!

I'm writing to let you know that I've taken the liberty of firstly recording (in poor quality, by hand-held device and from a monitor screen) the video you very kindly made for the forum at jazzguitar.be and - secondly - sharing it within the thread at the link below:

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...tml#post620959

No infringement intended; I don't think you'll object to my actions, but -of course - I'll remove it immediately if they're 'in the wrong key'.

On the other hand, perhaps I should have asked first and not acted on impulse - in which case I apologise, and I also promise to think a.third time before acting in future. (I thought twice, and I honestly don't think you'd mind.)

What has prompted me to write is the fact that another member - who is able to actually download and share a decent copy - has expressed a wish to do what I failed to do, i.e. ask your approval. While it isn't my place to ask on behalf of the forum, I'd like to bring this member's kind offer to your attention.

In closing, thank you for reading this, for your marvellous music and teaching, and for generously making the video!

Kind regards,
Mike McKoy (aka destinytot)

PS I use a more portable little AER now, but I love my Evans RE200! smile emoticon

Very nicely done! Thank you for contacting him. I cannot imagine a more graciously expressed request. Well spoken.

[MarkRhodes]

If you are questioning the builder of the guitar Ron is playing in the video of "There Will Never Be Another You" that is a Mapson, not a C.B. Hill. Jim is no longer building as far as I know.
All due respect to C.B. Hill's work. Check out the "M" inlaid on the headstock.

Thanks for the clarification. Ron refers to C.B. Hill as his luthier and C.B. shot the video Ron made to show his approach to playing in all the keys in a few positions.

[MarkRhodes]

Perhaps I ought to have asked first. If I've caused any harm, I'll apologise - and clear up any mess.

Just sent to Ron Eschete:
Dear Ron Eschete,

Warm and friendly greetings from this fan in Valencia, Spain!

Nice work, Mike. Thanks for taking the initiative. I can't imagine Ron objecting to that!

[diminix]

So just wanted to share what seems to me like some serious practical wisdom from the very very fine ron eschete playing in the 'common position' between 2nd and 6th fret C;F;Bb;Eb;G

Sunday is diagram drawing time... Prone to visual learning, the drawing often helps me to understand something better. So I checked the video destiny linked in post #44 and named the patterns in the order Ron introduced them:



These fingerings look very similar to the major scale patterns of Joe Elliot in Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing. If I got Groyniad right in the video in post #5, the major scales C, F, Bb, Eb and G between frets 2 and 6 look like this:



Interesting, to be explored further...

Robert

[snoskier63]

The diagrams on the left are also the five fingerings Jimmy Bruno teaches.

[diminix]

The diagrams on the left are also the five fingerings Jimmy Bruno teaches.

Yeah, have been drawing this too. JB seems to take the names of his fingerings from the relative scale degree they start from on sixth string. Don't remember exactly, guess in this diagram I was thinking about the connection between these fingerings and the shapes of Herb Ellis. Maybe I am drawing too much instead of getting this stuff into my fingers and brain...

Robert

[MarkRhodes]

Yeah, have been drawing this too. JB seems to take the names of his fingerings from the relative scale degree they start from on sixth string. Don't remember exactly, guess in this diagram I was thinking about the connection between these fingerings and the shapes of Herb Ellis. Maybe I am drawing too much instead of getting this stuff into my fingers and brain...

Robert

There is overlap. I like Herb's shapes----they are the same ones, he just thinks in terms of the triads on the top 3 strings. (If you think in triads, you have three inversions. If you think in terms of 7th chords you have four.) CAGED always seemed a little odd to me in wanting five shapes for everything when there are but twelve frets to an octave on the guitar and if you think in 4-5 fret blocks, you don't have room for five different blocks of 4-5 frets. You get lots of overlap. Not the worst thing in the world, and I know these five fingerings cold, so there's no bother, but when I'm PLAYING, especially improvising, it is handy to think in terms of shapes on the top 3-4 strings and how to move from one position to the next one above or below it.

Thanks for the diagrams! I appreciate them.

[destinytot]

Destiny, could you say a bit more about that? I'm unfamiliar with Peter's teaching.

Peter also teaches three basic arpeggios (chord tones that can connected as scales). He teaches them in multiple fingerings. Each one has been conceived for mechanical efficiency.

What I find similar to Groyniad's/Jon's OP is the (liberating) effect of having a reduced number of variables from which to draw.

That's what I find special about Peter's teaching, which has little to do with the arpeggios themselves (which are plain old Cmaj7, Ami7 and Emi7).

What it is that Peter teaches (so effectively) is a way of connecting these arpeggios by means of a unique approach - specifically, George Benson's approach - to a deceptively simple combination of fingering and picking.

What Peter teaches can be adapted and adjusted appropriately by the player to their desired speed - and he goes to extraordinary lengths to ensure that his students 'get it'.

I'm more than willing to talk about Peter's teaching - perhaps on the Benson picking thread (where I posted a rather hurried video about my re-think of 'The Grip' and guitar size before taking my siesta) - but I'm simply not competent to present or explain the content of his lessons. (I simply haven't got it down - yet.)

[SeanZ]

Destiny, would you please point me toward where I can find info on Peter Farrell's teaching material.

many thanks,

[lawson-stone]

The 5 fingerings are not unlike the CAGED fingerings as well.

I think there is a common set of fingerings here that everybody names and conceptualizes in different ways, each one very helpful at getting at something in its own way.

[lawson-stone]

I have rediscovered the original book I learned my basic scale fingerings from, Leon White's Styles for the Studio. He named the fingerings based on the major scale, which finger/string the root was on. So you have 1e, 2e, 4e, 1a, 2a, 4a, 1d. They connect up the neck several different ways, but going back to this book I have been amazed at how stupid and dense I was not to "get" what he was presenting. Now, 25 years later, I finally can appreciate that book and it's companion, Sight to Sound.

[MarkRhodes]

I have rediscovered the original book I learned my basic scale fingerings from, Leon White's Styles for the Studio. He named the fingerings based on the major scale, which finger/string the root was on. So you have 1e, 2e, 4e, 1a, 2a, 4a, 1d. They connect up the neck several different ways, but going back to this book I have been amazed at how stupid and dense I was not to "get" what he was presenting. Now, 25 years later, I finally can appreciate that book and it's companion, Sight to Sound.

I had that book as a teen! I found it in a music store where I was taking lessons. I'd never heard of Leon White. I learned fingerings from that book. I remember the 1e, 2e, and so on. Leon hopes to regain the rights to the book and put it out again; I hope he does, as I'd like to see a copy again and check my memory.

[lawson-stone]

I had that book as a teen! I found it in a music store where I was taking lessons. I'd never heard of Leon White. I learned fingerings from that book. I remember the 1e, 2e, and so on. Leon hopes to regain the rights to the book and put it out again; I hope he does, as I'd like to see a copy again and check my memory.

A hope shared by many I'm sure. I think it's the primal presentation of the 7 fingerlings.

[MarkRhodes]

A hope shared by many I'm sure. I think it's the primal presentation of the 7 fingerlings.

My technique was pretty crappy back then. I'm sure there was a lot more in it than I pulled from it as an impatient teen. But I did learn a few things....

[jazzuki]

These fingerings/positionings are similar those that Forum did about two years in a thread by F.E.P. when he did a series on Joe Elliotts book "Jazz Guitar Soloing". This teaches you to play the diatonic arpeggios within the 5/6 fret framework as well as the scales. For those interested its well worth trawling back as Frank did a few video's of the lessons. I think we went thru nearly every chapter of Joe's book which included the substitutions.

[jazzuki]

Just found the FEP. posting Apl 2012 STUDY GROUP " Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing"

[destinytot]

Destiny, would you please point me toward where I can find info on Peter Farrell's teaching material.

many thanks,

Hi Sean. There's some blurb on here, and also a promo video: George Benson Music Institute

This endorsement from the site says it best:

“Peter is the genius of the fingering, and one of the most amazing guitar players nowadays and if someone wants to know anything about me, they will have to look for this guy.” George Benson

I heard him thanks to a clip posted on the 'Benson picking' thread, and eventually I sought him out for Skype lessons. I've just written to ask if it's OK to share his email in a public thread - if not I'll PM you.

[destinytot]

Peter Farrell contact: babalugroove@hotmail.com