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  1. #51

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    I love the Segovia fingerings TBQH (to be quite honest)

    And I love the Johnny Smith three octave arpeggios TBQH

    But the sound of the notes comes first and foremost

    **Last double post ever, I promise** (Unless it's a journal thread )

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    And I used to use the whole tapped finger principle while playing scales.

    My point is, you learn a system to learn the notes... great.

    But once you get comfy with that system, learn a new one.

    Then another new system.

    Then another new system of fingerings.

    Then ear train.

    Like a BAMF.

    Don't be stuck playing 10 years with one fingering system.

    Jimmy Bruno, et all, I don't care.

    That fingering system will inherently dictate how you play and what you play. Don't let the guitar dictate what you play, let your inner ear and your mind dictate what you play.

    Was it Hal Galper that said...



    Cue the Hal Galper hate

    And the Erez87 hate

    Agreed 100%.


    Though I do think it's worth the discussion of which method to start with.

    Honestly, when it comes to jazz, learning to "forget" the boxes is when you really start PLAYING, at least talking about bebop. It's about flowing through the changes. Simply playing x scale over x chord is only a small part of a much bigger system.

  4. #53

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    interesting comments .. yes scales are a primary necessity in music..learning the fretboard and all the note names seems to be a major task to almost everyone who plays guitar..learning scales in many positions is one way to learn the fretboard..

    its feeling "comfortable" in ALL positions that takes a bit of time..then learning the scales in ALL keys in ALL positions..now that gets dull and boring real fast..so you add arpeggios to that study-in all positions in all keys..

    then: start the scale/arpeggio from any note in any position

    and the final touch..use melodic patterns and their variations (there are several hundred of them)

    this of course is an ongoing study and is very helpful in melodic/harmonic development..using harmoniced scales- diatonic chords as rest stops of scale steps you begin to see voice movement evolve..it becomes a revelation with using the inversions of the chords in all the positions and seeing the "scale map" guide you to the next inversion

    in doing the above you see the "reason" for learning scales in all positions rather than an exercise of playing just a scale

    the number of notes per string/speed are variations on a theme and not the main melody-so to speak
    play well ...
    wolf

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    And I used to use the whole tapped finger principle while playing scales.

    My point is, you learn a system to learn the notes... great.

    But once you get comfy with that system, learn a new one.

    Then another new system.

    Then another new system of fingerings.

    Then ear train.

    Like a BAMF.

    Don't be stuck playing 10 years with one fingering system.

    Jimmy Bruno, et all, I don't care.

    That fingering system will inherently dictate how you play and what you play. Don't let the guitar dictate what you play, let your inner ear and your mind dictate what you play.

    Was it Hal Galper that said...



    Cue the Hal Galper hate

    And the Erez87 hate

    i don't disagree, yet don't fully agree with this. (i mean your post not HG)

    I think that you should have one optimal fingering, plus an alternate or two.

    that's not quite the same as learning a bunch of systems.


    how many different ways do pianists learn to finger C Ionian?
    Last edited by fumblefingers; 11-01-2015 at 12:42 PM.

  6. #55

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    fumble, thanks for actually reading my post before commenting

    Even I need to catch myself from posting too quickly.

    i don't disagree, yet don't fully agree with this. (i mean your post not HG)

    I think that you should have one optimal fingering, plus an alternate or two.

    that's not quite the same as learning a bunch of systems.

    What I meant was, don't let a fingering system dictate what you play or how you phrase a line. Let the line and your inner ear dictate the fingering system.

    Does that make sense? Sometimes I get caught up in details and I don't tell the overall idea. Let me know.

  7. #56

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    well yeah, the idea is to make artful music, not run fingerings like a robot.


    however, one's ability to play moderately difficult to difficult ideas successfully, depends on a solid technique of established fingerings.

    it's pretty obvious that if we try to execute all of our ideas with any old fingering that occurs at the moment, the probability of making a flub up will be very high.

    i believe that the idea is to work very hard to get the two in sync (our inspired improvisational ideas, and our established technique, that is).

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by fumblefingers View Post
    no fingerings, just notes on the stave?
    In the Johnny Smith 'aids to guitar technique' booklet (26 pages, IIRC), the fingerings are given.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  9. #58

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    The "Aids to Technique" booklet was not written by Johnny Smith. Doesn't mean it isn't a good or useful book, unless that's your impression.

    In my experience, position playing gets us all sending somewhat similar; I broke that with Mick Goodrick's Unitar approach, playing along each string as a separate single-string guitar. That's seems to be a good way to learn the fingerboard without being trapped into patterns too much.

  10. #59

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    I think that two octaves plus a fifth is a pretty useful range for an ascending passage, and maybe less than that for descending...

    Just my opinion/observation though.

  11. #60

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    I will try and use as much of the scale in all its octaves. I find playing Blues in E is the easy one . To work on my innovation in scales. or I will work on Key changes along with tempo shifts. There are some very good explanations posted Here. enjoyed reading a lot of it. Three Octave Scales-20190522_164752-jpg I am now using a Trio+ with my gear.

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz View Post
    The "Aids to Technique" booklet was not written by Johnny Smith. Doesn't mean it isn't a good or useful book, unless that's your impression..
    According to the Johnny Smith website, Johnny Smith indeed wrote that book. It is "The Johnny Smith Approach to Guitar" that was compiled from seminar material.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  13. #62

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    [QUOTE=MarkRhodes;977068]According to the Johnny Smith website, Johnny Smith indeed wrote that book. It is "The Johnny Smith Approach to Guitar" that was compiled from seminar material.[/QUOTE

    Yeah, I was under that impression, also. He talks about his picking technique in "Aids", and it was widely misinterpreted as meaning that you should pick from ONLY your forearm (a'la Dennis Sandole) and not use your wrist at all. My first guitar teacher misinterpreted it, and that screwed me up for many years. That video interview with him cleared it up for all time, but he mentioned it in other interviews in GP magazine.