Hybrid picking

**NSJ** · 04-18-2015, 11:41 AM

My Achilles heel. Started out plectrum picking, now 100% finger picking. I thought about trying to learn hybrid picking-will never return to strict plectrum only style (way too limiting I've gotten addicted to polyphony

).I sat down and analyzed it--fingerpicking using p-I-m-a to play block chords? Not a problem. Using P-I or I-M to play lines? Not a problem.Now we get to the beart of the matter --M-A. That's the weak sauce/weakest link.especially finger independence between the two fingers on the thee treble strings. Then I thought about it some more. Perhaps a really good M-A technique would be the key to bringing back the pick in terms of hybrid picking?Any thoughts on hybrid picking ?

**Hep To The Jive** · 04-18-2015, 12:41 PM

I do a it lot, if even subconciously. Just pluck the chords, very short, stacatto stabs when comping. Pick between T and I, and M,A are plucking. So basically just limited to 3 strings at a time, but It still works for me, more like an effect or something, percussive thing. Especially for bossa type, i'd be doing this, and then solo with a pick. It's not something I worked on as a technique practicing and stuff, it just naturally became a part of me over time.

Actually, come to think of it, I've been doing something like this when playing in a Travis picking style, trying my best to copy Brian Setzer rockabilly thing. So I guess it developed from there.

**AleikhBaba** · 04-18-2015, 02:15 PM

To be honest, if hybrid picking is used efficiently, you can get a lot of mileage out of simply adding the middle finger into the equation. if you're using the M-A combination more during hybrid picking, you might observe that you're picking is taking too much of a backseat. the idea is to find a nice balance, but then again personal proclivities and tastes will factor into the equation. check out tim miller or even Holdsy for that matter, they don't bother with the ring finger too much. I've seen Kreisberg sneak it in as well, and Mike moreno (who's a pretty capable finger style player).

one more thing, I think economy picking can work well when using hybrid strategies

PS: my post was more from the point of view of playing linear lines. while comping, the ring finger is very much part of proceedigns.

**jtizzle** · 04-18-2015, 03:45 PM

I got two of Gustavo Assis-Brasil's books on the topic. I could never pick it up. I hope one day to get in on it, but my picking is actually pretty good and I've copped a lot of the lines from the books and play them with just the pick fairly easy.

**princeplanet** · 04-19-2015, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

I do a it lot, if even subconciously. Just pluck the chords, very short, stacatto stabs when comping. Pick between T and I, and M,A are plucking. So basically just limited to 3 strings at a time, but It still works for me, ......

Why limit to 3 note chords? I use the pinky as well, so pick b/n P and I, leaving M, A and pinky for the rest of the chord. Pinky is not useless, it just follows A, but a string beneath. Split voicing with string skips are hard, no doubt, but you work it out somehow. Sometimes I might use my pinky to strike the whole chord just as your thumb might, it can sound close, but with the added advantage of having your regular plectrum technique available at all times.

**Stevebol** · 04-19-2015, 03:13 PM

Seeing Chris Thile play some Bach recently was inspiring in this regard. I don't believe he uses hybrid picking but he does play classical with a pick. Doing music designed for guitar such as Tarrega might be next to impossible to do with a pick but some baroque music? Sure, it can be done. Liberties can be taken to some extent since so little is known about performance practice in baroque music. Instead of sweating over some part that may be very difficult- alter it but keep it musical. I'm working on Bach's Partita #1 for violin using hybrid picking and it' working out OK.
One problem is the tonality of a note played with a pick versus one played with a nail-less finger will obviously be different so I work on that.
I find it helps to learn some fairly simple pieces and learn them with and without a pick. Also, I don't use the pinky. Another problem is playing a note with the pick and a note on an adjacent string together. It's just awkward but I'll work it out.

**Hep To The Jive** · 04-19-2015, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by princeplanet

Why limit to 3 note chords? I use the pinky as well, so pick b/n P and I, leaving M, A and pinky for the rest of the chord. Pinky is not useless, it just follows A, but a string beneath. Split voicing with string skips are hard, no doubt, but you work it out somehow. Sometimes I might use my pinky to strike the whole chord just as your thumb might, it can sound close, but with the added advantage of having your regular plectrum technique available at all times.

3 note chords sounds good enough to my ears. Again, it's more of a percussive thing for me, so I'm not worrying too much of getting intricate voicings. Even though, I can do fast switching of MA fingers from string to string, but again, it's more about adding to the groove than adding to the harmony. And, not the least, my pinky is my anchor finger, it has to be on the pickguard helping to navigate my wrist.

I can't recommend enough to study Travis picking a bit if you want to get comfortable with finger picking. Classical guitar study would help too, but IMO Travis picking has more connection to the rhythms of jazz, especially the style of players like Scotty Moore, Chet Atkins, Brian Setzer.

**Shadow of the Sun** · 04-19-2015, 09:25 PM

While it's not the same as playing with a flatpick, you could try playing with a thumbpick, squeezing it like a flatpick between your thumb and index finger for lines that need a picked sound and using it as normal for the more polyphonic lines.

If it worked for Chet Atkins, it should work for you.

**mr. beaumont** · 04-19-2015, 09:54 PM

I dunno if I'm any good at it, but it's all i do, really.

I brush several strings with my ring finger if i want a bigger chord...which isn't too often. 3 and 4 notes are plentt for me usually.

I developed it kinda by accident...needed to fill space in a rock trio back in high school...

**Dave70** · 04-20-2015, 09:56 AM

This guy had pretty good hybrid technique

:

I love his sounds, there's a ton of great stuff on this vid.

**Melodic Dreamer** · 04-20-2015, 01:53 PM

When I first got into it the guy for me was Brett Garsed. He is more of a rock/fusion guy, but he has a wonderful technique and seems to be such a great guy. We have emailed each other a few time. He was always super nice to talk too.

video talking about hybrid picking

In action.. Starts off playing slide, 55sec in he stats picking

**AleikhBaba** · 04-20-2015, 02:15 PM

oh yeah I gotta throw in Jake Hertzog's name in the mix. young burning fella, has insane hybrid picking tech, and really makes it work for him, allowing him to play angular lines, rip through vertical structures etc

**Dave70** · 04-20-2015, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

Perhaps a really good M-A technique would be the key to bringing back the pick in terms of hybrid picking?Any thoughts on hybrid picking ?

Actually I think you'll just have to practice your M-A technique WITH the pick. It feels different if you don't hold the pick, to me anyways.

**Bikewer** · 04-20-2015, 03:01 PM

I was never able to get a balanced sound. The pick always overpowered the fingers. I play fingerstyle very well, and I flatpick very well. But not both....

I spent a bit of time trying to analyze why, and it seems to me that the subtle change in the angle of your picking fingers caused by holding the pick is partly to blame.
I use classical-guitar technique for fingerstyle....And everything is geared to that hand position. When you hold a pick between thumb and forefinger, it changes the angle of the other fingers.

It's a theory, anyway......

**NSJ** · 04-20-2015, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

I was never able to get a balanced sound. The pick always overpowered the fingers. I play fingerstyle very well, and I flatpick very well. But not both....

I spent a bit of time trying to analyze why, and it seems to me that the subtle change in the angle of your picking fingers caused by holding the pick is partly to blame.
I use classical-guitar technique for fingerstyle....And everything is geared to that hand position. When you hold a pick between thumb and forefinger, it changes the angle of the other fingers.

It's a theory, anyway......

Understood. BTW, I noticed that there is various terminology to describe the right hand.

I tend to use the descriptors P-I-M-A-C. Having never been married, not sure what the ring finger is. Embarrassed to say.

Even when playing finger style (I play steel strings with LONGer nails, which is a battle in itself), I analyzed that the A finger is the absolute weakest. M is used in conjunction with I.. So, developing M-A is an absolute must.

As for the C finger, I suppose it will be necessary with hybrid picking in playing 4 note chords. 4 note chords are of course covered finger style by PIMA. Does anyone play 5 note chords other than strumming (i.e, arpeggiating) with partial barres? Most of the time, I think of 1-2-3 and 4 note possibilities.

**Pocket Player** · 04-20-2015, 10:15 PM

I think its a awesome skill to have under the belt. if your willing to practice hard the permutations !!! there a million cool licks to be had. I know i plan to put the work in myself. but wont get to it till next summer. working the 7 pos scale system this summer

but a really cool skill ! especially if you can execute on a higher level. and a few of them Nashville boys can really smoke.... but the skill transcends to any style of music.