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Yeah the Dave Barton clip is more bebop. I wonder what his speed ceiling is. That's a very relaxed tempo.
It seems like it must be possible. I mean Paco can play as fast as McLaughlin and Di Meola on those guitar trio records, and he "picks" every note. I just haven't heard anyone do it, so it's hard to respond to any poster that asks about it, "Do it like this."
Even Martin Taylor, who is probably the premier finger-style bebop player right now, switches to his pick when he wants to solo.
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02-01-2015 10:47 AM
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Right, mine is just speculation!
Originally Posted by ecj
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Okay, so there's no consensus. And that's no surprise.
I appreciate the discussion. It's clear that some guys have great speed with their fingertips, more speed than I would even want since my brain could not keep up. And neither could 99% of the audience. But there is that other 1%!
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The Dave Barton clip was great - thanks for posting it
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I haven't chimed in yet.... Back when I was starting to play in the mid-70s, we were all doing folkie fingerpickint with steel fingerpicks. On steel-string acoustics.
I realized later that the main reason all my buds were playing that way was for the volume.... A lot of house sound systems with one mic.... And you held the guitar up to the mic for those hot licks....
Anyway, I started reading Guitar Player cover-to-cover and even the classical guitar column. The guy spent a whole lot of time on "embrochure" and also nail care. He was of the opinion that a combination of flesh and nail was ideal... Just enough nail to produce a clear tone. Properly shaped and beveled much as the above illustrations show.
That's what I do now, having started to work more seriously on fingerstyle jazz. My right-hand nails are hardly longer than my lefts, but I get a nice clear tone on both nylon-string and flatwound electric.
However.... It is hell when I break one which just happened a few days ago changing a tire.... Most annoying. No noise at all from my ring finger.....
If I keep them at optimal length, I get very little breakage.... It's only when I let 'em get a little too long.
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I think to also mention Gustavo Assis-Brasil. He is an amazing guitarist who used a nicely developed method of hybrid picking. He has written several methods....
GUSTAVO ASSIS-BRASIL
Videos » Gustavo Assis-Brasil »
His books outline exercises for developing skill in adding fingers to the pick. You could however apply the exercises to thumpick and fingers.( part of my practice routine.)
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That's a great reference, and he's an excellent player.
I'm very tempted to buy his course on hybrid picking. But I made a pledge to myself to finish all of the other books and courses I already have. And there's a lot of them.
Originally Posted by lumena
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How about this young man? Very personal.
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Nelson Veras...
Sweet voice... wonderful stuff. I checked out the Facebook stuff. I am going to watch all these.
Thanks a lot.
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So really, whatever works for you....try out some different methods, stick with what feels most natural....
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The thing that enables me to make single note runs fingerstyle was learning electric bass. All the sudden it was no problem. I guess playing bass is like working out with weights. When you go back to unweighted(guitar) it feels like nothin.
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I've been playing electric bass exclusively for the last two months and working through James Jamerson transcriptions. I haven't touched my guitar. I hope you're right. Originally Posted by drbhrb
Last edited by danwaineo; 02-09-2015 at 02:07 PM.
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There is a ton of great content in this thread!
I made a close up video of my right hand a few years ago that might give some insight into my approach. maybe some will find it useful.
all the best
Tim
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I'm self taught, always used a pick, and discovered decades later I have always used "economy picking".
I don't know if it's just me, but now days I find economy picking without a pick (using only my thumb) feels very natural. I'm not moving my arm or hand, just moving the thumb for up and down strokes, which I don't see much about in picking discussions...
I get the sense that at least 90% of the mechanics and feel of economy picking with a pick transfers to doing it just with the thumb, as does about 90% of the speed.
Sounds really nice; I like the more subtle articulation.
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Here is another one maybe more toward fast bebop approach.
i dont usually play this fast but someone asked me if it was possible so i tried .
Tim
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In regards to Pauln's post... Years ago, I got a recording and accompanying book from French guitarist Marcel Dadi. He too used the thumb for single-note lines, playing alternate-picking with the thumb held in "flatpick" position.
Seemed to work for him... May have been a peculiarity of his thumbs....
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I play fingerstyle on flattops and gave up on fingernail maintenance when I started using Fred Kelly "Freedom" fingerpicks. They are (to me) the most natural feeling fingerpicks that you can shape, change the effective length of the "nail" by sliding them up and down your finger, and they are waaaaaaaaay faster than natural nails or any other fingerpick. They make rolls and fast single lines really easy to execute...well...easier to execute, anyway.
Also, the finger pad is exposed allowing you to play artificial harmonics and tapping as if you weren't using fingerpicks at all.Last edited by FatPick; 02-13-2015 at 11:19 AM.
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Here is another vid showing my approach, no nails (short nail on the thumb but i don't use it for lines) no particular pattern (i practice many combinations and hope that the music will decide whats best).
enjoy and let me know if the vid is helpful.
all the best
TimLast edited by TLerch; 05-27-2015 at 02:17 PM.
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Tim,
First things first. I love the strap lock. I use them myself.
Thanks for the very helpful video. Please let us know when your Masterclass video is ready.
Originally Posted by TLerch
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Explore these options like T I T I, T M T M, I M I M, T I T M, T M I T M I and T I M T I M. It will help you.
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Two other people to watch for technique in this area are Jerry Donahue (with thumb pick) and Marc Knopfler (without). I've seen Jerry also use the thumb-pick as a plectrum when he wants to dig-in, and it works to great effect. Listen to Jerry on a number like Tokyo ) - incredibly clean for thumb pick and fingers
In the folk world, Martin Carthy's claw-hammer style produced remarkable results; listen to him playing with Dave Swarbrick note for note on jigs and reels on their early recordings
John Williams in can be heard doing some interesting things in his Sky period with (I think) a Gibson L5-S, using a purely classical technique
Personally I use a pick 95% of the time but now and then I like to apply the Donahue or Knopfler approach - I take care of my nails because I also play quite a bit of traditional folk in alternative tunings. Nailsa areno too long, so sound is not harsh .
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Interesting in this whole thread, nobody has mentioned Joe Pass, who could play stunning bop lines fingerstyle.
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Joe was mostly finger style player, but when he wanted to really burn especially in terms of lines and bebop, he always picked up the pick . Usually a very small teardrop pick that he cut in half Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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As to burning single note lines played fingerstyle , google the French musician Sylvain Courtney .
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@Lawson - isn't most of JPs speed achieved principally by gliss and hammer on/off? Not sure, just asking... I'll dig out my videos when I get home from work and have a look.
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