The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Posts 26 to 50 of 102
  1. #26

    User Info Menu

    Nothing is taboo. It's jazz, after all.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

    User Info Menu

    Try classical vibrato instead of blues vibrato (you move the finger very slightly horizontally instead of vertical/pitch manipulation a la Clapton)

  4. #28

    User Info Menu

    I grew up on blues and rock and disliked the sound of classic jazz guitar when I first heard it. But now I like that sound. I know that some vibrato is used in jazz, but for one who grew up on Albert King, Clapton, Beck and Hendrix, it doesn't seem like a lot. But I don't miss it anymore. I just don't.

    To paraphrase Flannery O'Connor, "A jazz guitar player can do anything he can get away with---but no one's ever been able to get away with very much."

  5. #29

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jds1978
    Try classical vibrato instead of blues vibrato (you move the finger very slightly horizontally instead of vertical/pitch manipulation a la Clapton)
    I think that any vibrato is pitch manipulation . . isn't it? Vocalists have been using it for centuries to cover up "pitchyness" in long tones. Whether or not they do it intentionally or unintentionally is another conversation altogether. ;-)

  6. #30

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Ted Greene had an almost constant vibrato.

    This is tear jerking territory...WOW

  7. #31

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kaye
    Btw....this is one of my favorite clips of Jim Hall. The subtlest, slowest, most beautiful vibrato on the planet..


    The master and his plectrum!...L...

  8. #32

    User Info Menu

    yeah, the hard bop era was probably the nadir of vibrato in guitar playing. although segovia's heavy vibrato also went out of fashion among a lot of the younger classical players then, too.

    vibrato is sometimes a crutch for poor intonation or technique. it may also not be entirely coincidental that vibrato became less popular among jazz guitarists just about the time that bending and heavy vibrato were really on the rise in rock and blues.

    there were huge controversies over vibrato in early 20th-c classical music, and there's a lot of musciology research on those battles. i don't know of any comparable work on vibrato and jazz guitar, though.

  9. #33

    User Info Menu

    According to about half of American couples, no.

  10. #34

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonzo
    According to about half of American couples, no.
    That would probably be the female half of the couples?

  11. #35

    User Info Menu

    I'm not a fan of it in jazz, but it can work when it's subtle. I have often heard it overdone by non-pro jazz guitarists, and when I catch myself doing it but I'm pretty quick to snuff it out or at least get it out of the rest of the solo. In my head, I think it works best if it's followed up with something very clearly jazzy, something bop-ish.

  12. #36

    User Info Menu

    Going to music school they got me to stop the "rock guitarist" vibrato when playing Jazz. I think the more subtle vibrato is more vocal like.

  13. #37

    User Info Menu

    I've always loved Johnny Smith's vibrato. So subtle, and beautifully placed.

    Django Reinhardt has a great vibrato too -- very distinct.

  14. #38
    OK i'll be the anti-vibrato advocate.
    All the above examples of tasteful and effective use of vibrato above notwithstanding, to my ear it sounds cliche and old-timey. If that's what you're going for, then by all means, vibrato yourself silly.

    Played with an alto sax player in a small group for a bit, and he would wail on that thing with all kinds of vibrato and it just sounded like he was channeling the ghost of Benny Goodman. Nothing against Benny G., but it just made me cringe. Sounded very contrived to me, and I often imagined sweet, sticky syrup bubbling out of his horn.

    I come from a blues background, like many of us, and have adopted BB King's trill maneuver and all kinds of other tricks to push those emotional buttons. I use them all when i play blues/rock - it's part of the fun.

    But when I play jazz -- attempt to play jazz -- I seek to avoid all those contrivances and seek/hope to drive emotion with the purity of the music. Admittedly, there are plenty of jazz cliche's as well. But that vibrato just sounds so cheesy to me, like reading a romance novel rather than Chekov.

    But that's just my ear: Love flat-tone Miles. Hate chorus-effect Metheny.
    Now get off my lawn, you rotten kids!

  15. #39

    User Info Menu

    It's all a matter of taste and judgement. No fixed rules. It depends upon the music and context.

  16. #40
    destinytot Guest
    Good question and thread.

    I think judicious use of slow* vibrato can complement effective use of volume and dynamics (with or without amplification).

    For example, Jim Mullen makes his guitar 'sing' by means of skilfully-controlled vibrato:


    I'd say vibrato is part of Jim Mullen's 'signature sound'. While I appreciate the way Eric Gale, Cornell Dupree and David T Walker use vibrato, I really admire the fact that Jim Mullen brings that sound to straight-ahead playing.

    And then there's George Benson:


    I really enjoy and appreciate Jim Mullen's tasteful quotes in solos, and it was pleasing to hear Mornington Lockett quotes both 'Singin' in the rain' and 'Alfie's Theme' in the above clip. (I also admire - for different reasons - that other rare gift that Gary Potter has: the ability to have audiences in stitches of laughter with mid-solo musical jokes.)

    But, to return to the question of vibrato, I feel that Hal Galper's brilliant insights into "Time & Tone" have implications for the choice of whether - or when - to make use of it. In this clip, he talks about the importance of focusing on the duration of each note, especially its end:



    *PS I'm reminded of singers whose voices are pure (fast) vibrato. When such voices are also 'bright', the sound is far from pleasant.
    Last edited by destinytot; 07-27-2014 at 10:06 AM. Reason: spelling & clarity

  17. #41

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kaye
    Btw....this is one of my favorite clips of Jim Hall. The subtlest, slowest, most beautiful vibrato on the planet..


    I didn't notice at first, but he uses a pedal a couple of minutes in.

    And Scofield has a beautiful vibrato/bends/sustain/various use of expression.
    Last edited by srlank; 07-27-2014 at 12:29 PM.

  18. #42

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarbean25
    This is tear jerking territory...WOW
    Wow 2 !

    I like the "problem" he refers to at the end- where he talks about wanting to go into some minor key (keys?) excursion but he was busy evolving the (amazing ) multi voice counterpoint Jazz/Classical thing and he's talking to the audience of Guitarists about it....
    Nice problem to have.
    Beautiful Art.

  19. #43

    User Info Menu

    I like a slow small vibrato - helps the notes sustain a bit without affecting the intonation.

    Peter Bernstein does this. Maybe picked it up from Jim Hall?

    Keep it in time too - very important. You should be able to vibrato in the subdivisions. Try 8th note vibrato, for example.

    By the way the in time vibrato thing is important for a great rock sound too... Time and tone are tremendously interlinked subjects.
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-27-2015 at 08:30 AM.

  20. #44

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by ecj
    How about Benson?

    Vibrato gets used a ton these days. It's pretty rare to hear anyone that doesn't use it, at all.
    Benson does use some Vibrato and I noticed in an Interview two of his favorite Blues Players are BB King and Eric Clapton.( Clapton elevated Vibrato to another level way back when only a few Players in the World were as accurate and fluid with Vibrato as he ).
    But when I hear Benson ( who is one of the "Bluesiest " and Funkiest straight Jazzers ever on Guitar-
    I get the feeling that he keeps his Vibrato and bends subtle and he gets his amazing
    Blues Feel from his sense of Time and note choices...sometimes he does it really pretty and sometimes he really gets down and dirty ...Benson is also very Bold ..sticking wild little phrases in Ballads Onstage in front of the World...amazing.

    One of the greatest String Benders with full Jazz Vocabulary is Larry Carlton - but I imagine to the true Jazz aficionados as great as Carlton is - it doesn't connect as directly to Charlie Christian- Burrell- Wes Montgomery....etc etc as much as Benson does.

    During the next 10 to 20 years we will probably see some Guys on 7 string who play straight Jazz incorporating more Bends...

    I grew up on Rock and R&B but also played Acoustic a lot...and am a little tired of the Gain and distortion...and I always liked extended chords which sound bad IMO with Distortion so it's interesting for me to hear the Jazz Guys do it all ....with just Notes and Timing .

    Although as you say- with clear gain and great fluid chops...Guitars with vibrato and
    gain can get closer to Sax and Violin.

    I remember a quote from Pat Metheny who said Eddie Van Halen sometimes reminded him of a Post Coltrane Sax player ...

    But no Guitarist has really gone " there" yet...

    I am a Rock/R&B Guitarist so I use a lot of
    Vibrato which can sound great in Jazz Blues ( which I am learning more about- ) the chops part is easy for me but harmonically enriching the Lines and playing vertically and hearing the Tensions and finding them instantly and staying in Time - that's a whole other thing.

    So I am trying to temporarily not use vibrato and just keep the swinging eight notes really tight and it's really more difficult because I can't just pause on the chord tone or extension while I think of where to go next...lol.

    The other thing that really surprises me is it's physically hard to keep a steady stream of swing eighth notes at medium tempos.. and I thought I had some real chops..lol.
    It's easier at fast tempos but medium tempos - and no pauses- is challenging.
    And it's part of the Guitar Vocabulary to me that I want to speak fluently...so no hiding behind long bends and vibrato for now...lol.

    In actual recording/ performance I use melodic cadences which of course have vibrato...and it can be more horn like anyway of course.

    I remember Carlton talking about Joe Pass making students just play dotted eighths over changes to see where they were...

    I see now why he did that because it exposes time sense/ picking technique/endurance/ fretboard and mental musical fluency all at once- nowhere to hide..
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 11-02-2015 at 08:54 PM.

  21. #45

    User Info Menu

    I think this is an interesting question and also entirely irrelevant. If you feel it and you hear it you should use it. I think its unfortunate it has become somewhat taboo. Instrumental music and phrasing borrows to a very large degree from the voice, if not vocal music itself. When most of us hear music we relate to it from our own voice. And the voice vibrates. Who doesn't sing lines from time to time? Who doesn't sing when trying to transcribe? Vibrato is more than merely an ornamentation. It is an expression of emotion and approximates wavelengths and color. Musicians who purposefully eliminate that from their tool box might be being a little shortsighted.

    I've often felt that jazz guitar was miles behind other forms of modern guitar because it has frozen itself in some voluntary time capsule, which in turn isolates itself from new possible fans because of this self imposed, old school exile.

    I've said this often enough - Who cares what other guitar players say or do? Do what comes natural to YOU. That's jazz.

    Jazz has become old, moldy and fixed. There is a great sound that was great in the 50s and even the 60s. It was relatively monophonic, dark, no vibrato. Thick strings. Limited emotional range, but can swing like nobody's business. I love that sound. But I also love the sound Jeff Beck gets, or Robben Ford or Joe Bonamassa or Michael Gregory Jackson or maybe you, I don't know.

    Pedals often are also taboo in jazz. Distortion, and big tonal shifts. Yes there's Frisell, Metheny, Sco, Kurt, Metheny and a bunch of youngsters influenced by them. Things are changing and that's great. Do what you like. Do what's right.

    I used to consciously not use vibrato. But for me it was more what Miles Davis said was taught to him. His teacher told him not to use it. When you get old you'll start shaking anyway. And that vibrato-less style helped define Miles' sound. I ALSO felt vibrato was the first thing that dated a player, noting as you did, the wide vibrato of Goodman and say Lucky Thompson, Webster, etc.. There are certain stylistic things that will date you quick. But I don't think natural vibrato does. Or using that wide vibrato occasionally for dramatic effect, rather than one's regular resting tone. A natural sounding vibrato that sounds like a singing human voice will always sound natural and right I believe.

    My two cents.
    Last edited by henryrobinett; 11-02-2015 at 08:17 PM.

  22. #46

    User Info Menu

    Yeah Henry..

    I think swinging eighth notes sound great over Fusion ..R&B ...hip hop ..and House Grooves.

    I always played them but not for long periods and not as strict..

    But coming out of the Steely Dan kind of concept but more Rhythmic ( though I am not a musical genius like Fagen/ Becker) Jazz is a very fertile resource..

    I think Jazz would evolve more if we had Composers doing Harmonically Sophisticated R&B ( like Stevie Wonder did) and sophisticated changes with new Rhythms that people want to dance to....

    We don't have the Gershwins and Cole Porters doing Cool Grooves with sophisticated changes for people to Solo over....so they still use Standards I guess.

    Edit- A few days ago I heard " That's Life" by Frank Sinatra on TV while I was playing unplugged..and I started playing to those Changes and heard most of the Chords very clearly...it's really Blues - I LOVE that III7 Chord ...( Saturday Night Live theme...
    Georgia on My Mind ...right )..
    Anyway I was playing and outlining the changes and also getting dirty and bending notes like Clapton/ Carlton and it sounded very good...pretty fresh.
    The trick for me is to get it this polished- always...lol.
    So Henry Robinette - thanks ..right again.
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 11-18-2015 at 11:56 PM.

  23. #47

    User Info Menu

    I think we all got it wrong. See, terminal vibrato is what makes jazz tasty. Johnny Smith knew this, Jim Hall knew this, Wes knew this, and so did old CC.

    I love David Russell's vibrato in the classical realm the most, but that's partial to me cause I love David Russell's playing

    The Brute had a personal vibrato, LTD had a personal vibrato, and the Bean.

    I think the key to playing with a nice vibrato is to hear that vocal vibrato in your head, in your head, zombie, zombie

    Cranberries?

    Hear it in your head and listen to players who have the vibrato you wanna imitate

    I hate jazz guitar when it's all the same dynamic, and everything sounds like it went through a computer.

    If we totally silence vibrato, then we might as well be playing the piano

    ain't nobody wanna play the piano

    that's not how you pick up the ladies

    ...unless you play that Elton John stuff

  24. #48

    User Info Menu

    Yeah Henry..

    I think swinging eighth notes sound great over Fusion ..R&B ...hip hop ..and House Grooves.

    I always played them but not for long periods and not as strict..

    But coming out of the Steely Dan kind of concept but more Rhythmic ( though I am not a musical genius like Fagen/ Becker) Jazz is a very fertile resource..

    I think Jazz would evolve more if we had Composers doing Harmonically Sophisticated R&B ( like Stevie Wonder) and Hip Hop etc.

    We don't have the Gershwins and Cole Porters doing Cool Grooves with sophisticated changes for people to Solo over....so they still use Standards I guess.

  25. #49

    User Info Menu

    Yes, but I think vibrato also sounds good on straight ahead swing. You just don't hear guys doing it because most don't hear a context for it. Rhythm Changes, Like Someone In Love, Moments Notice. Anytime you hear a sax or trumpet solo using vibrato, it would also sound great on guitar. Coltrane, Cannonball, Brownie, Rollins. Even with a little light overdrive.

  26. #50

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kaye
    In my young jazz career as I transcribe solos I can't help but notice the absence of vibrato, particularly in traditional jazz guitar.

    Coming from a rock, pop, and blues background, where you can't survive without several varieties of vibrato, I find myself still struggling to restrain my vibrato. I mean, I get it, a big wide vibrato seems really out of place in jazz, but come on, no vibrato at all? Where the note just dies flat? Is that really the tradition? It still tweaks my ear to hear a phrase end and there is absolutely no movement while the note drops off a cliff.

    I'm really trying to develop my taste for it but it's difficult to swallow.
    We all have some natural vibrato and we should not suppress it.
    Regarding the note's endings, I think the trick is to purposely end them before they wear off, while still strong enough, with some vibrato, or without.
    Well, yes, sometimes it's OK to just let it ring out, as a statement, if it does not sound too much out with the next chord..

    Personally, I do not consciously go for vibrato, except for exaggerated effect, pretty indistinguishable from spasmodic tics, of which I'm guilty, but can't help it.

    What vibrato is in my playing, it's there all by and of it self.