The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    wow! great thank you for the video! i looks really smooth. i have problem with a slippery plec.. can you recommend this technic? thank you for the video!

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  3. #52

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    Works for me at the moment but everyone's different of course. One thing hardly anyone mentions is that you must have a pick with a very sharp point because you are passing the pick over the string at a angle where a round tip doesn't work.

  4. #53
    I grew up using the Benson technique - or something very close to it. I didn't know it was the Benson technique - it was just the way I started playing and no one ever taught me a different way. I'd describe the way I picked for the first 30 year of my playing was like a left handed person holds a pen when writing - with the wrist bent in towards the palm side of the hand and the 1st & 2nd fingers holding the pick against the thumb.

    In 2005 I started using a different technique where my wrist is straight, the pick is held between the 1st finger & thumb, and the other 3 fingers are straight - but relaxed. I like the control and the tone better with this technique, but it took me a few years to make it feel comfortable and natural. I still use the other/Benson technique, shifting between the two.

    I sure appreciate Tuck doing such a great write up on picking styles. I wish he'd do videos demonstrating them as some of them are a bit hard to grasp from the written word.
    Last edited by SwingSwangSwung; 07-23-2010 at 10:06 PM.

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwingSwangSwung
    I sure appreciate Tuck doing such a great write up on picking styles. I wish he'd do videos demonstrating them as some of them are a bit hard to grasp from the written word.
    you say it! a video or dvd would be awesome!

  6. #55

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    fep, THANKS!!! Your pictures cleared it all up! I read the Tuck Andress article on Benson picking years ago and didn't figure it out. Your pictures are a God send. I think that I'm on my way to the best picking I've ever done in 40 years of playing!
    Last edited by CJSkip; 09-06-2010 at 04:10 AM. Reason: I wanted to thank fep specifically.

  7. #56

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    It was always hard to find players using the "Benson technique" I first learned this picking style in 1976 from a Italian guitarist from Cleveland OH,Ralph Russo, who explained that it was an old European style of plectrum playing. That led me to look to players from other parts of the world for some examples of this playing style... The Puerto Rican cuatro players seem to be using this style a lot!
    Here's a video example. I'll post some other players later.


    More videos



    Hybrid picking? @ 1:24
    Last edited by bay221; 01-07-2013 at 02:48 AM.

  8. #57

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    A teacher got me started with Benson picking (without calling it that) around 1970, before I knew who Benson was. I don't think my teacher knew who he was at the time either, and I suspect this technique is a lot older than Benson.

  9. #58

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    I probably should have posted my video on this thread. It's over here if you want to check it out.

    https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/every...-l5-wesmo.html

  10. #59

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    Here's my attempt at using the Benson technique along with hybrid picking. I'm still just a student of this... I don't have it down anywhere near as well as Philco.


  11. #60

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    I hope some of you who are adept at this technique will take a peek at how I'm holding my wrist and tell me if that's a good way to go or a disaster waiting to happen.


  12. #61

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    Hey Frank you've really got that working for you. You look very comfortable and the switch to hybrid seems natural and seamless.
    And there's that nice fat sound.
    I really have to do a lot more practice with the hybrid thing to make it as seamless as per your demonstration.

  13. #62

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    Hi Mark, the best way for me to answer is to make a short video with the view "over the shoulder".
    Everything came together for me when I held the pick a certain way. You are very close, because your thumb is behind your index finger. The only advantage of that is that it makes holding the top corner of the pick more viable. You have more strength or .....just a better grip.

    Your wrist does seem to curl a lot and I don't think it needs to. One way around this is to move your whole arm slightly further down the lower bout. This gives your arm a chance to straighten.
    The movement comes from the wrist. It's just a shake back and forth. Such a small movement.

    I have to show you the angle of the pick. It's all important.

    I will employ my wife to hold the iPad over my shoulder and hopefully something more will be revealed.
    Although this means she will be hip to my secret.

    Let's concentrate on the pick grip. Once you have that (and you won't believe it when you see it) you will at least see how it works for me. Then you can work out if it will work for you.

  14. #63

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    Actually I think Dan Johnson has saved me the effort. I hope he doesn't mind me linking to his video.
    This displays the pick "hanging out" that I feel is needed to get the pick flexing and moving.
    This is how I hold the pick.

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philco
    Hi Mark, the best way for me to answer is to make a short video with the view "over the shoulder".
    Everything came together for me when I held the pick a certain way. You are very close, because your thumb is behind your index finger. The only advantage of that is that it makes holding the top corner of the pick more viable. You have more strength or .....just a better grip.

    Your wrist does seem to curl a lot and I don't think it needs to. One way around this is to move your whole arm slightly further down the lower bout. This gives your arm a chance to straighten.
    The movement comes from the wrist. It's just a shake back and forth. Such a small movement.

    I have to show you the angle of the pick. It's all important..
    Thanks, Phlico. Moving my arm further down the lower bout made a huge difference. I feel like a new man! A new man who botches everything I play just now because I'm not used to it yet, but hey, one step at a time. Thanks for posting the second video. That helped too. I'll mess with this a day or so and post another vid so you can check to see if I'm getting the pick angle right. Thanks, man!

  16. #65

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    Cool.....you realize that the video above is Dan Johnson and not me. I wouldn't be making those changes as smoothly as Dan!

    I've just posted some photos re the pick grip over on the other thread.
    Damn I should have just posted on this thread.
    Now we've got 2 going....oh well.

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philco
    Cool.....you realize that the video above is Dan Johnson and not me. I wouldn't be making those changes as smoothly as Dan!

    I've just posted some photos re the pick grip over on the other thread.
    Damn I should have just posted on this thread.
    Now we've got 2 going....oh well.
    Yeah, I knew that wasn't you in the second vid but I got the message you were sending by posting it. That view helped. The main thing (-for me so far) was changing my arm position---things lay out much easier now.


    As for having two threads going: ideally, one would be better but I think merging them now would prove more confusing than helpful.

    I liked the pics you posted on the other thread, especially showing your index and thumb without the pick and then with the pick between them. My thumb seems to ride a little higher on the index than yours does. I don't know if this makes enough difference to concern me though. It's like being under the weather: if it's not better in a couple o' days, I'll have to see a (pick) Doctor!

  18. #67

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    Another short clip seeking enlightenment....


  19. #68

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    What is the angle between the pick and strings?
    All of the video I have watched of GB he seems to have very little angle, but its hard to tell.
    Sheryl Bailey who also uses this technique seems to have more of an angle.
    Maybe I just have to play and find what angle works for me.

  20. #69

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    Point of contention really. I think JC Stylles uses an acute angle. I wish there was a definitive photo of GB and the angle but there isn't.
    And I think GB changes the angle all the time.....or adjusts it while playing to suit.
    The angle I seem to settle on is with the edge pointing over my left shoulder.

    I think you are correct in that you must find what works for your hand.
    As time has passed I have found that I must find a way to mute the strings with the side of the hand.

    Muting whilst maintaining the pick angle was impossible for me because I have a long hand and a broken thumb that won't bend (there's a lump where the bone knitted at the base knuckle) and this has forced me to hold the pick in the second finger......a lot like Mike Moreno........and put my index finger on the top edge of the plectrum.
    This allows me the advantages of the GB style but with full muting capabilities.

    I don't think about it much anymore so I think my brain has settled on it.

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philco
    Point of contention really. I think JC Stylles uses an acute angle. I wish there was a definitive photo of GB and the angle but there isn't.
    And I think GB changes the angle all the time.....or adjusts it while playing to suit.
    The angle I seem to settle on is with the edge pointing over my left shoulder.

    I think you are correct in that you must find what works for your hand.
    As time has passed I have found that I must find a way to mute the strings with the side of the hand.

    I don't think about it much anymore so I think my brain has settled on it.
    Perfect answer! And I speak from a little experience! I was fortunate enough to meet George last year at a hotel in Dubai and got to ask him the very question! (Even bought one of his GB200's)

    Anyway the conclusion is that the standard picking technique we all learn first is not a natural wrist movement! The wrist muscle is also a very weak muscle. Also its a totally anatomical thing! George has an extra arm for a thumb lol! I dont!

    So with that in mind I went away and tried every position possible until I ended up with one that worked for me.

    After a few months I now hold the pick with my thumb and two fingers, I have also rotated the pick so I only use the top corner of it! My preferred angle is around 45 Deg but as Philco explains, this changes all the time.

    I will never go back! It took me about 3 months and for a while there it totally devastated my playing

    But now, my articulation is only something I dreamed of! Because I now use my arm in combination with a natural wrist rotation I feel for the first time in my life I am in control of the damn thing lol!

    Its horses for courses but if I can pass any of my ups and downs changing my picking style I would say this.

    -Hold the pick with thumb and two fingers
    -rotate the pick around a little until you find that sweet spot
    -Angle it in a way that suits you
    -Use a combination of arm and correct wrist rotation

    Things to expect

    Your whole technique will fall apart for a bit
    Comping will feel a little strange (Heavy)
    After a few weeks you will forget about your old technique as now your using more powerful muscles to motor your pick.
    One day you will wake up and find you have total control over the pick.

    Again I'm no expert but this has all worked out well for me and I'm just glad to share my experience!

    Eddie

  22. #71

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    Wow Eddie you are so lucky to meet GB and have one of his guitars.
    Thanks for relating your experience.
    I was watching the video where GB is playing with Jody Fisher and he has that guitar with the sparkly gold top and it may look gaudy but it sounds awesome with a big woody tone.
    When I hear him talk he seems truly passionate, articulate and has one of a kind talent.



    Quote Originally Posted by merseybeat
    Perfect answer! And I speak from a little experience! I was fortunate enough to meet George last year at a hotel in Dubai and got to ask him the very question! (Even bought one of his GB200's)

    Anyway the conclusion is that the standard picking technique we all learn first is not a natural wrist movement! The wrist muscle is also a very weak muscle. Also its a totally anatomical thing! George has an extra arm for a thumb lol! I dont!

    So with that in mind I went away and tried every position possible until I ended up with one that worked for me.

    After a few months I now hold the pick with my thumb and two fingers, I have also rotated the pick so I only use the top corner of it! My preferred angle is around 45 Deg but as Philco explains, this changes all the time.

    I will never go back! It took me about 3 months and for a while there it totally devastated my playing

    But now, my articulation is only something I dreamed of! Because I now use my arm in combination with a natural wrist rotation I feel for the first time in my life I am in control of the damn thing lol!

    Its horses for courses but if I can pass any of my ups and downs changing my picking style I would say this.

    -Hold the pick with thumb and two fingers
    -rotate the pick around a little until you find that sweet spot
    -Angle it in a way that suits you
    -Use a combination of arm and correct wrist rotation

    Things to expect

    Your whole technique will fall apart for a bit
    Comping will feel a little strange (Heavy)
    After a few weeks you will forget about your old technique as now your using more powerful muscles to motor your pick.
    One day you will wake up and find you have total control over the pick.

    Again I'm no expert but this has all worked out well for me and I'm just glad to share my experience!

    Eddie

  23. #72

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    I found this youtube which has a pretty good close up of GB picking.
    Fast forward to about the 3 minute mark.
    There is definitely an angle between the pick and the strings.
    Another thing I noticed in this and other videos, he keeps the pick close to the strings and pushes and pulls on them rather than swiping at them from a distance. I guess this makes sense to have less movement for faster picking. It may be a common technique but I don't know since I am new at this.


  24. #73

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    Cool clip! Haven't seen that one before. GB20.....nice!! He looks so young.

    Here is another one I haven't seen before. The pick technique seems to have changed a little. Solo around 2.20.
    I think this is the best I've heard a GB10 sound.


  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philco
    Cool clip! Haven't seen that one before. GB20.....nice!! He looks so young.

    Here is another one I haven't seen before. The pick technique seems to have changed a little. Solo around 2.20.
    I think this is the best I've heard a GB10 sound.
    That was a great sounding solo. Nice octaves using the pick, no Wesmo thumb.
    Guess it just shows GB can make any of the guitars he plays sound awesome.
    He was quite handsome in his younger days and now looks quite different. Lets just call it the "Michael Jackson" effect.
    James Moody was actually a local musician who passed away not long ago.
    Too bad I never got out to see him play.

  26. #75

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    To those who have this technique down- Is the side of your pinkie/little finger sliding up and down the pick guard as you move from the low E string to the high E string? Or is it glued to the spot?