The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I would like advice.

    I've been experimenting with different right hand methods.

    I come from a picking background. However I've played my comping and chord melodies with basically fingers. I do not have any classical training.

    But I usually solo with a pick.

    And I have fooled around with hybrid picking. It is ok but the drawback vs. fingers is you only have the pick and 3 fingers. Fingers only you have 5. Plus the bass note tends to sound out more so you have to adjust to a very light stroke. I'm not set against it though. Ed Bickert was great at it. I like his sound very much.

    However playing extended chords with 5 notes is not possible it seems.

    I am not adept at soloing with fingers. That would take some time.

    I would like to settle in with a single method. Should I commit to a method or not?

    If I comp with fingers and solo with a pick I put the pick in my mouth ala Joe Pass. I love Joe Pass musically too.

    I'd appreciate suggestions and opinions. Is there an ideal way?
    Last edited by Drumbler; 01-28-2009 at 10:14 AM.

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  3. #2

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    hey drumbler..

    we guitarists have the right hand fingering techniques that you are using...

    the technique your right hand uses depends on what you are playing as you stated above...

    some things work and some don't for the tune or chords you are playing and if you are chord melody playing or comping the right hand can play in different ways..

    you are on the right road...you just have to experiment and find the one that best fits the situation...variety is the spice of life....

    we guitarists have such a large color palette to chose from that sometimes it takes a little more time to find the right one for the right moment..

    time on the instrument...pierre...

  4. #3

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    Hybrid picking can be so similar to finger picking. My right hand position came from a classical teacher who taught the rh classical position similar to that of Pepe Romero (there are slightly different rh position that different classical teachers will teach, and they can be very picky about the details). The finger picking position of my wrist and fingers is virtually the same as when I hybrid pick - the distance of the wrist from the guitar, the direction that the fingers attack the string, the plane of the back of the hand etc (I told you classical teachers can be real picky).

    The point I'm making is if you decide on hybrid picking it isn't much additional work to develop skill at finger picking. I say do both. I think it's best to learn fingerpicking first and then add the pick to that classical rh position.

  5. #4
    Thank you for your replies.

    So Pierre, you say to accept the differences and use the tool necessary for the job at hand. Very good.

    Fep, a question I have had about fingerpicking is the way to approach playing single lines in pick fashion with fingers. How do you do this? What fingers do you use?

    For example, to play a line like this:

    ----8--7--5------------------------
    -------------8--5-----------------
    -------------------4--5--7-----------
    -------------------------------
    ---------------------------------
    -------------------------------

    When you hybrid pick, how do you reconcile only being able to hit 4 strings at once when playing a chord?

    Thank you both.

  6. #5

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    yes drumbler..you can play all songs with all the techniques at hand but you should chose the one that sounds the best at the time

    I know...so many books-so little time..

    after doing this for a time you will hear in your head which one is going to sound good or better than the other...

    we are like scientists sometimes because we must experiment with our resources and make wonderful music for others to hear..

    time on the instrument...pierre

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbler
    Thank you for your replies.

    So Pierre, you say to accept the differences and use the tool necessary for the job at hand. Very good.

    Fep, a question I have had about fingerpicking is the way to approach playing single lines in pick fashion with fingers. How do you do this? What fingers do you use?

    For example, to play a line like this:

    ----8--7--5------------------------
    -------------8--5-----------------
    -------------------4--5--7-----------
    -------------------------------
    ---------------------------------
    -------------------------------

    When you hybrid pick, how do you reconcile only being able to hit 4 strings at once when playing a chord?

    Thank you both.
    Hi Drumbler,

    If I was hybrid picking I'd play that line with a pick only.

    If I was finger picking I'd play that line with alternating plucks of the index (i) and middle finger (m). Starting with either finger so, m i m i m i m i or i m i m i m i m.

    Some players would also use the anular (a) finger when playing single note runs. I very seldom do, I use the a (and sometimes the pinky (p)) only when playing arpegios - for the most part.

    Most of my chords are actually 4 notes or less but when I play a chord with more than 4 tones and I'm hybrid picking I'll just strum the chord with the pick.

  8. #7

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    Feps right - m,i,m,i,m OR i,m,i,m,i. Whichever is most comfortable to avoid awkward string crossings. It's good practice to try i,a,i,a,i and m,a,m,a,m; most people find this pretty hard at first!!

    Sailor

  9. #8
    Thank you very much.

    I appreciate your help on the fingering.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbler

    And I have fooled around with hybrid picking. It is ok but the drawback vs. fingers is you only have the pick and 3 fingers. Fingers only you have 5. Plus the bass note tends to sound out more so you have to adjust to a very light stroke. I'm not set against it though. Ed Bickert was great at it. I like his sound very much.
    Is it just me who sees this? Don't you want a thumb pic? There's even "hybrid" thumb pics around that look like a flat pic with a strap. I don't have experience with them myself but it just seemed the obvious solution. Using thumb pic and fingers = 5 fingers to play with... yes?

  11. #10

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    Or do Jazz guitarists traditionally shun thumb pics?

  12. #11

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    I started playing guitar years ago using folk-fingerpicking, I used a thumb pick and 3 plastic fingerpicks. When I moved into rock and blues, from accoustic, I began to use the flatpick - However, I missed the versitility of the fingerpicks.

    'For me' the best alternative was the hybrid technique. It took me almost 2 years to make the change. I went through my entire fingerpicking repetoire and learned to play all of it using the hybrid approach. It was a lot of work, and frustation, but I am happy with the results.

    Whatever choice you make, it will take a lot of work to get fluid and proficient with it . . . and, once you do that, any system will suffice.

    Have fun,
    Bill

  13. #12

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    hmm so all in all, its still down to commitment and hard work.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill_J
    'For me' the best alternative was the hybrid technique. It took me almost 2 years to make the change. I went through my entire fingerpicking repetoire and learned to play all of it using the hybrid approach. It was a lot of work, and frustation, but I am happy with the results.
    So, how different is the tone etc. of a thumbpic and a flatpic? I would've thought there'd be thumbpics of similar material etc. ? Or is it about feel?

  15. #14

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    For soloing, I'm big on strict Alternate Picking. This keeps your timing perfect.

    As for comping, as Pierre said... there are many methods. However, I prefer all fingers for most songs... and only use a pick for comping during gypsy jazz tunes.

  16. #15
    I've made the decision to hybrid pick chords and it is satisfactory.

    There is no perfect method but it is very adequate. There is some advantage in immersing yourself in a method and reducing choices, simplifying so to speak.

    For single lines I generally alternate pick.
    Last edited by Drumbler; 05-05-2009 at 08:37 AM.

  17. #16

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    have you ever tried using a thumbpick? you have then 5 fingers and a pick etc.

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Shmals
    have you ever tried using a thumbpick? you have then 5 fingers and a pick etc.
    Yes, but I'm not really interested in learning another completely new method.

    And I like to solo with a pick.

  19. #18

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    I have been working with a harco thumbpick it is a combination of a flat pick and thumbpick. Go to youtube and checkout Scotty Anderson, he plays with a thumbpick. He plays in a lot of styles and I think if you see him play it might change your opinion of thumbpicks (and telecasters) for jazz.

  20. #19
    I use a telecaster now.

    I'm familiar with Herco thumbpicks. Thanks for the ideas.

  21. #20

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    lorne lofsky uses thumbpick and as many fingers as he has... there was a real nice youtube of an early Joe Pass, playing a Fender Jag. Rather than finger style or hybrid, which is all I have ever know him to use, it was strictly a standard pick all the way.

    Brian

  22. #21

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    Being as fluent as possible in all various picking hand techniques makes a lot of sense: we all try to learn as many fretting hand tricks and techniques, why not picking hand too? Some stuff just feels natural fingerstyle, other stuff is natural with a flatpick, etc.
    Martin Taylor even has a little attenuator switch on his pickguard to be able to switch from fingers to a pick mid-song without a noticeable change in volume.