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I looked in a mirror at myself while playing in a new environment. I was horrified at how I slump over my guitar. Have any of you had any long term experience with the downfalls of long-term slumping? Any tips on how I can learn to sit more upright that applies to guitar playing.
I have already taken to placing the guitar in my lap rather than relying on the guitar strap.
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11-05-2013 02:59 PM
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Yeah I used to have back and neck problems from hunching over the guitar. Nothing serious besides near constant low-grade pain which would occasionally shoot down my arms. I can't play like this anymore due to an unrelated minor handicap in my right arm.
I've since taken to mostly playing a *strat with the strap adjusted pretty high up so the guitar is in the exact same position relative to my body whether I'm sitting or standing. This way my posture doesn't suffer and I'm able to play longer and with much less effort in general. As a bonus I can now to that Thelonious Monk thing where I periodically stand up and dance around while I'm playing
*this would probably work with a smaller archtop or semi-hollow but if I were playing a larger archtop I'd probably adopt a more classical position and use a cushion to keep the guitar in the right place.
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Originally Posted by jckoto3
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I sit when I play and I always disliked using a strap. I tried those folding foot rest devices and the new Neck Up guitar support as well and other types of guitar supports that were origionally designed for classical guitar players. What I have ended up doing is going back to using a good quality guitar strap and just forcing myself to get used to it. I'm a small guy and I play a 16" archtop so it took some getting used to but at the end of a three hour gig I have much less pain and stiffness using a strap. When I practice or perform I make sure to use the strap and it allows me to lean back in my chair, shift around and change positions which is beneficial.
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It can't be as bad as this
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Just look at Jim Hall re: long term effects of slumping! And he had spinal surgery a few years back...Sonny went to see him in the hospital...
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stand up to play. practice yoga.
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Originally Posted by teok
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Alexander Technique is pretty cool! I wouldn't have maybe sought it out but somebody emailed me wanting to do a barter of Alexander sessions in exchange for guitar lessons. I've done maybe a half dozen, and so far, regarding posture, it's given me some helpful ideas.
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Also, the guitar itself just sucks, depending on the dimensions of your body. It's hard to play and have everything be just right, something always has to give.
For example, play sitting down without a strap, it's hard not to hunch over to get your hand under the fretboard.
Sit up more straight then your hand is higher and it's harder to have your left hand in proper playing position (thumb on back, space between palm and neck.)
Get a foot stool and move the guitar to your left leg then your hand is in a great position and maybe you could even sit up straight, but your back is twisted.
That brought me to the "Neck Up" but it's still hard to be perfect with everything.
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I have struggled with this, and its my own fault, from lounging in the living room with my back against a couch sitting on the floor with the guitar propped up on my lap....its a most comfortable position for practice but not good for actual playing or recording sitting in a chair....You need to experiment and find a reasonable position...I fiddle around a while in a chair until it feels ok, I like the left leg propped up ...the strap seems to pull the guitar in and I like to tilt it out a little. So I'm not using a strap as this time....
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I hedge my bets and practice in various positions: sitting (with strap), sitting with right leg crossed, standing, sitting with left leg crossed (only possible on my 15" archtop though).
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Yes there's actually a lot of logic to spending time in different positions. I did a lot of occupational therapy with the guitar and my therapist advocated mixing it up. It makes sense, you wind up using different muscles and while there's no perfect position, at least you're not hammering away with the same problem (say, an elevated right shoulder) at all times.
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Originally Posted by JakeAcci
Jake - I'm also about to start a barter next week with an AT teacher in exchange for lessons, seems like deep stuff!
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Put a mirror where you can look at yourself when you practice. I find this useful both for posture and keeping track of hand position. With a full-length mirror, you can use it whether you're sitting or standing.
It also helps just to do a little self-awareness check every 10-15 minutes, ask yourself (mentally) if you're comfortable or do you feel any stress or pressure on any particular part of your body. When playing music its easy for your attention to go completely into what you're doing, and miss/ignore self-perception.
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I've posted this photo several times . . so, in the interest of helping the OP .. please tolorate it still yet another time.
This position has worked out extremely well for me. Here in the photo, you see that I'm playing an L5CES. It has a 17" lower bout. There are no issues with this position with a 17" arch top. However, when I play one of my 18" archies, the lower bout will creep forward a bit causing the guitar to slant upwards, (think Freddie green) a bot more than I like. That will require slight adjustment getting the guitar back into the position you see here. No real big deal to reposition it. But, with a strap, the 18" is fine in this position and doesn't move. With the 17" . . I seldom if ever use a strap and have absolutely no need to. Notice my left foot elevated on the foot leg extension of the chair. Posture, hand position, neck position are all perfect, for me. I never have a fatigue isse in this position. But, then again . . I'm rarely in this position for more than 45 minutes at a clip.
Anyway . . here it is . . . hope it helps.
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Originally Posted by 3625
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that looks comfortable for you, with a 15inch archtop you would, I expect, have to elevate your left leg some more..Boy, I like your guitar collection...
Last edited by artcore; 11-06-2013 at 05:56 PM.
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This seemed to work for Joe:
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Originally Posted by artcore
But, on a more serious note . . yeah. This really wouldn't work too well with a smaller body guitar. This position, on this chair . . . I can not play my strats or Les Pauls. I need a seat with a lower center of gravity for those smaller guitars. When I play my strats, Lesters or semi hollows . . I'm usually standing and strapped.
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Most of what I want to say has been mentioned already, but I'll say it anyways.
Jim Hall is a chronic sloucher, well he was, especially if you look at early videos, hence why he had surgery a couple years ago.
Look into a book called A musicians guide to the Alexander Technique. Someone that I admire for the posture they have when playing is Julian Lage, and he has studied the Alexander Technique quite thoroughly.
I have yet to check the book out, but as soon as I get a library card its mine.
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Great info.
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Originally Posted by 3625
Like David Gorman—one of my favorite writers and teachers—says, “Never pick a fight with yourself, because someone’s gonna lose and it’s gonna be you.” So I decided to start from scratch and study how the pick actually produces a sound. I began by setting the pick on an open string—let’s use the open 3rd string for our example— to see if I could sense any excessive tension as I anticipated picking the string. To my surprise and delight, I absolutely did. It was as though just by making contact with the string, I felt the pressure to make the string sound and where that anxiety manifested most was in holding my breath and locking the right shoulder.
From my studies of the Alexander Technique, I was aware of the difference between stimulus and reaction. The stimulus in this case was the registered desire to pluck the string, and the reaction was tightening my muscles to make that happen. So after taking note of how I was organizing the act of plucking, I decided to see what would happen if I set the pick on the string, noticed the tensing, and then imagined how I would behave differently if the pick had to stay there for 20 minutes.
Once I considered this, I quickly noticed the tension started to subside. It was as though I had given up my expectation and was able to rest. In the absence of the anxiety, I started to realize I’d been under the impression I had to make a big effort to pluck the string. Since I started playing when I was a boy and the guitar was much bigger, I probably had to work harder to produce a sound. But at this point, I have changed in stature from those days and my relationship to the guitar needed to change as well.
Essentially, I was meeting the string with equal force and finding a point of balance rather than overriding the string. So I’d practice resting the pick on the string, allowing the excessive tension to subside. I’d then take my hand off and let it rest, and repeat the process—all as a means of breaking my habitual trajectory from stimulus to reaction.
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For whatever it's worth, here are the cues I give myself currently when I warm up. Well, some of them aren't actually cues because they are ingrained enough. This mixes some of the Alexander Stuff.
Neck "free" (released/relaxed)
Head up and in line with the spine
Wide, long back
lower back released
thighs released
feet flat on the floor
shoulders released
shoulders even with each other (guitarists tend to lean one shoulder more forward than the other and one shoulder elevated)
mindful of tension everywhere, especially shoulders and forearms (for me)
left arm:
neck angled out a bit so arm can be more extended
wrist straight (no pronation/supination/deviation)
thumb on back of the neck
thumb acts as sensor and occasionally helps grip, but the muscles pulling the strings down are in the back, not in the fingers (well, good to visualize it that way.)
I need the neck-up to make all of this happen
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Originally Posted by JakeAcci
Jocelyn Gould!
Yesterday, 11:04 PM in The Players