The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I tried using my strap Wes' way years ago and understand his reasons. The L5 goes way out of tune quickly with this hook up though. Anybody else have a similar experience? You can't get that Freddy Green/Art Ryerson tilt any other way though. Seems like it only works when your sitting.
    Attached Images Attached Images Wes Montgomery's Guitar Strap strapped at the head stock guitar facing up at you.-wes-montgomery-jpg 
    Last edited by ChuckCorbis; 10-18-2013 at 01:23 PM.

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  3. #2

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    How about that??

  4. #3

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    Very cool! Nice! I bet Wes loves it. No out of tune octaves there.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckCorbisiero
    Very cool! Nice! I bet Wes loves it. No out of tune octaves there.
    Hey Chuck. Nice to see you back posting again.

  6. #5

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    Cool Patrick. I started playing again so, I feel more comfortable contributing. Thanks. It's nice to be here with you. Life's good.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckCorbisiero
    I tried using my strap Wes' way years ago and understand his reasons. The L5 goes way out of tune quickly with this hook up though. Anybody else have a similar experience? You can't get that Freddy Green/Art Ryerson tilt any other way though. Seems like it only works when your sitting.
    Makes sense though, you can't put that kind of tension on the fast neck of the L5. I've never seen Wes play standing
    up (like George Benson) so I guess he adopted that strap position because of comfort as the normal strap pin is
    on the upper part of the treble bout or in the middle of the neck heel at the base. With a 17inch L5 that is the
    best place and balance for the neck strap pin.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by disco~juice


    How about that??

    That works too. Bit unorthadox, but it seems to work great. Guess it really depends on your comfort level
    and the position of the neck angle that facilitates easy movement on the FB.

  9. #8

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    I sit most of the time when I play and I have a couple Wes-style straps that I love. I hold the guitar with a good tilt, about 45 degree, so not as flat as Freddie Green in his later years, but enough so the back is not touching my body too much and my belly does not muffle the sound. The strap only helps with the balance and it is not tight enough to pull the neck and impair intonation. I could actually play in that position without the strap without any problem.

    When I play standing up, I don't like the strap attached at the headstock though and I use a guitar that has a strap button at the heel.


  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by disco~juice


    How about that??
    I tried that a while ago.

    When I play, the guitar is pretty much in the same position as in this video, but I didn't like having to "sit tight" to hold the strap. Although sitting down, I move around a bit on my seat. That's why I decided to get used to the old style straps that attach at the headstock. Before that, when I used to play standing up, I never liked them though because it felt like too much pressure between my shoulder and the neck.

  11. #10

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    Hi - I'm new here - just bought a s/h 175 (beaut) and was about to commit the cardinal sin of getting a strap button fitted at the base of the neck when I discovered through Googling that this was how nature/Gibson intended. So I bought a leather Martin strap button for the odd occasion when I need to play standing (ie, gigs). This works fine but my real question is where can I buy one of those Wes style "vintage" black thin guitar straps. I hate the usual wide ones. Do guitar shops even sell these Wes type ones or is my only avenue online?

  12. #11
    You could try Amazon..

    Is this what you are looking for? Yes the strap pin should be in one of TWO places, depending on the balance of
    your ES175..option a) at the base of the neck heel ..or b) at the upper "treble" bout about 1 inch from the neck heel at the fingerboard is the other option.

    http://www.amazon.ca/Ebest-Leather-G...r+guitar+strap
    Last edited by Daniel Kuryliak; 10-20-2013 at 12:57 PM.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Kuryliak
    You could try Amazon..

    Is this what you are looking for? Yes the strap pin should be in one of TWO places, depending on the balance of
    your ES175..option a) at the base of the neck heel ..or b) at the upper "treble" bout about 1 inch from the fingerboard
    is the other option.

    http://www.amazon.ca/Ebest-Leather-G...r+guitar+strap
    Hi Daniel
    No I was looking for something like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/VINTAGE-PADD...e+guitar+strap
    but more curious as to why these don't seem popular now. I remember when I first started playing electric guitars these were pretty much the standard type of guitar strap. I hate the gaudy nylon/polyester type wide ones.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by RogerF
    Hi Daniel
    No I was looking for something like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/VINTAGE-PADD...e+guitar+strap
    but more curious as to why these don't seem popular now. I remember when I first started playing electric guitars these were pretty much the standard type of guitar strap. I hate the gaudy nylon/polyester type wide ones.
    Roger;

    The skinny straps went out with the skinny ties of the 60s. Now its wide this and wide that. Fashion statements I suppose and the fact that some guitarists like to put their names on the wide straps so their fans can tell who they are..I suppose.

    I wonder who got Wes's guitar and strap..now if you could get his strap, wouldn't that be the
    cat's meow as far as Karma?

  15. #14

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    [QUOTE=Daniel Kuryliak;370407]You could try Amazon..

    Is this what you are looking for? Yes the strap pin should be in one of TWO places, depending on the balance of
    your ES175..option a) at the base of the neck heel

    ..or b) at the upper "treble" bout about 1 inch from the neck heel at the fingerboard is the other option.
    I would caution against this . . actually, I would advise against it . . unless you take a light and mirror and check to see if there was a small strip of supporting wood, maple or spruce, glued to the inside of the rim before the top was afixed. It's a very thin and flexible strip of wood that will hepl to insure the strap button screw is securely threaded into enough wood mass to keep it from cracking the rim or even worse pulling out. There is always a similar strip glued into the rim where the input jack is mounted. The input jack will obviously experience more stress and pull than the strap button. But, I wouldn't chance it if there was no supportive strip of wood on the upper bout inside of the rim.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick2

    I would caution against this . . actually, I would advise against it . . unless you take a light and mirror and check to see if there was a small strip of supporting wood, maple or spruce, glued to the inside of the rim before the top was afixed. It's a very thin and flexible strip of wood that will hepl to insure the strap button screw is securely threaded into enough wood mass to keep it from cracking the rim or even worse pulling out. There is always a similar strip glued into the rim where the input jack is mounted. The input jack will obviously experience more stress and pull than the strap button. But, I wouldn't chance it if there was no supportive strip of wood on the upper bout inside of the rim.
    Gibsons ESPECIALLY THE es-175 already have a mahoghany support block in that location for the
    neck joint(see bottom picture). But I suppose for re-inforcement, a luthier can remove the neck
    pup and glue in a small mahogany reinforcing strip right there..easy enough to do.
    Never had a problem with any of the guitars I owned. The Epis (including the Elitists all had the strap pins in
    location b) Attachment 9040 but I would also recommend STRAPLOKS in any case, Gibsons because of
    their design weakness due to the hollowed part in the headstocks for the truss rod nut are known to
    break in two at that spot IF they slip off the leather strap hole or the headstock is knocked against something
    solid while under tuned string tension(around 150lbs tension) for all 6 strings combined.

    and this is what an Es-175 looks inside before the back is glued on. Took this on my Gibson Memphis factory tour.

    Attachment 9041Attachment 9042Attachment 9043
    Last edited by Daniel Kuryliak; 10-20-2013 at 01:47 PM.

  17. #16

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    If I did fix a strap button I would fix it at the back of the neck where it joins, so it would be screwed into the mahogany support block as shown above. This might cause a problem when playing in the upper register of the cutaway (to the left hand). However, I am going to resist this unless I find the Wes solution is just too awkward. Will still try to but one of those vintage straps though.

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RogerF
    If I did fix a strap button I would fix it at the back of the neck where it joins, so it would be screwed into the mahogany support block as shown above. This might cause a problem when playing in the upper register of the cutaway (to the left hand). However, I am going to resist this unless I find the Wes solution is just too awkward. Will still try to but one of those vintage straps though.
    You can also do c) similar to the ES-335 front strap pin location at the heel of the neck into the heel cap.
    It's a matter of personal preference and what you feel comfortable with while standing. I would have no
    qualms about putting it into location b) in the upper bout because to me, it feels more balanced and
    natural there..but I suppose that is why Gibson doesn't install the front strap..because there is more than
    one option available.

  19. #18

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    As I said above, I mostly sit down now when I play and I use a couple vintage Wes style straps that attach at the headstock. They are made by a saddlemaker in the Vancouver BC area.

    I still prefer the pin near the heel for playing while standing up.

    Here are a few spots where you can put one:
    Is there a best spot?“Where do you wantyour strap button?”

    I've had guitars with buttons at 2, 3, 4, and 5.

    I have #2 on my thinline ES-225 and it is okay (to my surprise). I am not sure it would be as fine with a full depth guitar. #4 work well on a flat heel (like on an ES-175). My L-4C has one at #3, it's fine but not where I prefer (I was told however that it is Linda Manzer's first choice). My favourite heel button spot is #5.

    If you choose #3, make sure you don't miss that block because a guitar side is too thin to be able to support a strap button with the load of the guitar. Same idea as hitting a stud when you screw something into a plaster wall.

    Whatever you choose, you need a pilot hole of the right dimension. Also use a tap to get rid of the wood dust into the hole otherwise the screw could put enough pressure to crack the heel. This being said, when done right, it is a very simple and safe procedure.

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Lang
    Is there a best spot?“Where do you wantyour strap button?”

    I've had guitars with buttons at 2, 3, 4, and 5.

    I have #2 on my thinline ES-225 and it is okay (to my surprise). I am not sure it would be as fine with a full depth guitar. #4 work well on a flat heel (like on an ES-175). My L-4C has one at #3, it's fine but not where I prefer (I was told however that it is Linda Manzer's first choice). My favourite heel button spot is #5.

    If you choose #3, make sure you don't miss that block because a guitar side is too thin to be able to support a strap button with the load of the guitar. Same idea as hitting a stud when you screw something into a plaster wall.

    Whatever you choose, you need a pilot hole of the right dimension. Also use a tap to get rid of the wood dust into the hole otherwise the screw could put enough pressure to crack the heel. This being said, when done right, it is a very simple and safe procedure.
    I've always been interested in the strap button and jack being combined into one . Now if I could find a surgeon to
    graft a jack into my belly button,that would be cool.....just kidding here..

    Choices! Choices...if Gibby had told us "low lifes"..here is the only place the strap button can go on your guitar
    and putting it anywhere else VOIDS the Gibson lifetime warranty..LOL!..then we as proud owners of said instruments
    would be perhaps a tad more careful where we put our strap buttons...really there is no "ideal position" for
    the neck strap button..it depends on:
    1. the instrument and it's type of construction ie; 1,2, 3, 4, 5...and maybe more
    2. the weight and balance of the instrument..the last thing you want standing up is an "albatross hanging off
    your neck" (pun intended here)
    3. Your overall comfort level with the shoulder strap
    4. Unimpeded access to the upper registers..as in the Les Paul and if you like to squeeze out the last two frets
    on that solo

    or why not go strapless...the women do it with their swim suits

  21. #20
    I just started standing up, I have a Peerless Gigmaster, pretty same as Gibson 175. i feel like the guitar is way out in front of me and I can't see the neck. I guess I'm used to playing a less paul which obvioulsy is a much thinner guitar. On the Peerless the strap hook is at the base of the neck, feels awkward. Any suggestions?
    thx
    Ken

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
    I just started standing up, I have a Peerless Gigmaster, pretty same as Gibson 175. i feel like the guitar is way out in front of me and I can't see the neck. I guess I'm used to playing a less paul which obvioulsy is a much thinner guitar. On the Peerless the strap hook is at the base of the neck, feels awkward. Any suggestions?
    thx
    Ken
    Yeah . . . I'll make a suggestion. But, you may perceive it to be sarcastic. Please don't. It's not meant to be. Here's my suggestion; either get a smaller guitar or sit back down. The feeling of discomfort isn't going to go away. It'll probably only get worse. You'll start to compensate for not being able to see the neck, by leaning or stork necking to the point where you can see it. At 16" a 175 is already pretty small. Joe Pass was a small man . . played both sitting and standing. But, then again . . Joe really didn;t need to see the neck. His fingers had a GPS built into his guitaristic brain
    to guide them like a vector. lolol

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
    I just started standing up, I have a Peerless Gigmaster, pretty same as Gibson 175. i feel like the guitar is way out in front of me and I can't see the neck. I guess I'm used to playing a less paul which obvioulsy is a much thinner guitar. On the Peerless the strap hook is at the base of the neck, feels awkward. Any suggestions?
    thx
    Ken
    I've always preferred (when I used to play standing up in a band, the strap button on an archtop behind the neck
    on the treble bout...this is IMO, the way "god intended it" and it feels quite natural to me too. I respect Wes and the
    way he liked to play with the strap wrapped around the headstock,but as we all know, Gibson doesn't supply a
    front strap button because that is an individual preferance and if they put it in specific place all the time,
    there would be customer players complaining that that strap position didn't feel right for their playing style.
    The angle of the neck and the weight of the guitar (ie ES-335) double cut thin line has it's specific place
    for drilling a front strap button. So more than likely IMO, Wes decided to play with the strap around the headstock
    because of that, but that's strictly MY opinion.. you guys ok with that?

    Here's Joe Pass playing his ES-175 with a strap and the location would be at the bottom of the heel closest to
    Joe, leaving the cutaway free of obtructions and the upper heel of the neck free and unimpeded with a strap button.

  24. #23

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    Joe looked like he was in a great deal of pain at the very end of that performance. He glanced at his watch like he was hoping to be able to get outta there. I wonder if that was during the time when he was dealing with his cancer? I know it was well after he kicked the white horse. But, he looked reaqlly bad there man.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckCorbisiero
    Please forgive me. Regarding the Joe Pass video.The watch thing could be that the "bookers" had given Joe Pass instructions to end by a drop dead time hence the watching of the watch. People can say what they want but this is more often the case with venues and zoning restrictions or schedule of operations parameters. On another forum Joe was unfairly lambasted for this watch incident and I don't want any of that in my thread. Sorry for the OT guys.
    My reference to Joe looking at his watch wasn't at all intended as a pejorative. Just a point of reference for when I expressed noticing the apparent discomfort, or even pain he might have been struggling through.

  26. #25
    According to Joe Pass biography (available on line), his last performance was May 7 of 1994. D. May 23 1994.
    He was a trooper to the end..and imagining the pain he was in..he still tried to play.

    He was diagnosed in May of 1992, and continued to play until early 1993.
    That clip (above) is dated 1992.

    I don't think any of us would be up to it, facing that kind of life changing event.