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I can think of three different ways to play octaves:
Sweeping the thumb like Wes.
Use a pick and sweep across three strings muting the middle string.
Using two fingers to simultaneously pick two strings.
When I use the first two techniques there is a clicking sound as my thumb or pick is passing over the muted middle string. Is this normal or with practice do you float your thumb or pick above the middle string. I don't hear the clicking when i listen to someone good playing octaves.
If not using a pick, is there a reason to not use the last method of two fingers, or even a pick and a finger.
I read somewhere about Wes's thumb technique being a "super hero" feat and not everybody should try to play that way.
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05-31-2013 02:18 PM
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It isn't just about playing three strings and muting the middle one.
If you'll closely watch the videos of Wes that have cropped up on YouTube over the past few years you'll see that he uses the palm of his hand and his non-fretting fingers to mute the strings as he strums five or six strings. That's where the thick, powerful, percussive sound comes from. Any other way of playing won't have that power. You can use your thumb or use a pick with Wes' left hand technique but plucking two strings won't sound as full as the way Wes did it.
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Yeah. You have to strum all the strings at once, but only leave the two you are fretting unmuted.
Octaves aren't that hard, physically. They were just a really great idea that no one had thought of using systematically before, and they sound awesome.
Charlie Christian does them a lot where he uses an upstroke across all the strings. I know he does it on Stardust, and if memory services Solo Flight.
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Part of the Wes octave sound is the percussive sound of sweeping across the muted strings. Listen to Blues guitarist and you hear a similar sound now and then raking across strings to the one fingered note it add punch the note.
A big part of the Wes super human thumb is how fast he could play single line with his thumb. Everything about Wes' playing was amazing and still is.
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Been using the style for some years now...
Not all songs....not all Wes octave transcriptions....etc...
Just another avenue of tunes to try the octave style on....
Time on the instrument...
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If you're hearing extraneous clicks or pops then maybe you could experiment
with changing the angle that you strike the strings.
It's easy enough with the thumb, you're using flesh so you'll get a fatter sound.
But with the pick, I use the butt end of the pick and angle it in towards the face of the guitar.
That, plus angling the stroke from left to right somewhat.
Sounds plenty fat.
Check out out Martino's octave sound...He uses a pick....He sounds great on octaves for me.
Also it may be that you're not getting "through the strings" in one quick move,
I think of this as sort of connected to playing big band Freddie Green style..you know
a single percussive stroke...but with the angle of pick changed for a fat amplified tone.
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I usually pluck with my thumb and first finger when I play octaves. I don't get a very percussive sound, but I'm also not trying to be Wes. I get a warm, mellow tone which I quite like. Another device I like to use is plucking the strings, then sliding up or down a whole step. I think Wes used this technique a fair bit.
When I use a pick for octaves it is usually in a funk or fusion setting, (usually with a bit of delay). The click of the muted string is welcomed here.
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Yea Octaves are great guitar sound in almost any setting. I generally play melodies with octaves, or combinations of...
depending on what guitar, what amp and tonal setting etc... the clicks become part of the sound. I made this vid of using octaves some time ago... I generally would never just play octaves, but did for this vid... ?
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Reg,
Originally Posted by Reg
As usual fantastic playing.
Can you explain which fingers are fingering the octaves and which ones are muting strings?
If you could explain the muting that would help because I think it is key to the sound.
Also looks like your thumb is just striking the range of strings needed and not all of them.
Thanks
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Hey jnbrowm...
I use 1st and 4th fingers to play notes of the octave. I use these because it's one less moving detail I have to worry about, as compared to changing between... 1st and 3rd and 1st and 4th.
The muting is fairly natural... Vertically speaking...1st finger can mute string below and above string playing, 4th finger mutes string(s) below.
Example... If I'm playing low "D" octave. "D" on 5th string and 5th fret using 1st finger and "D" on 3rd string, 7th fret using 4th finger.... the low "E" or 6th string and the "D" or 4th string are muted by 1st finger playing the "D" on 5th string. The "B" or 2nd string is muted by 4th finger playing the "D" on 3rd string.
If you need or want to mute 1st string, the 4th finger can also mute that string.... or if your playing octave on 6th and 4th strings... the 4th finger can mute 1st, 2nd and 3rd strings.
I've found it to difficult to use palm muting while playing octaves... unless you play slowly and don't leap around much.
I generally just concentrate on playing one note of the octave... one of the notes is the line or melody and the other is the doubling. I'm always trying to just play the fingered notes... I'm not playing chords.
Reg
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jnbrown: Have you practised playing scales in octaves? Playing scales in octaves while staying in one position is a great way to get full control of the technique. Try chromatic, major, minor etc. Great left hand exercise... Originally Posted by jnbrown
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I noticed in a clip the other day that Wes used fingers 1 and 3 on the two lower string groups and 1 and 4 for the higher strings. Benson always uses 1 and 4.
I'd always used the Wes approach, but have since switched to what Benson does. I find that using the pinky as the anchor makes it mentally easier for me to create lines, because I really only have to pay mental attention to the top note. The top finger is consistent across all my familiar scale and arpeggio patters, and the lower first finger easily adjusts.
Just some food for thought.
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Thanks for all the great tips. I am sure with some practice I will get it.
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I think this is the most beautiful octave playing I have heard.
I have no idea how Benson does this, maybe it involves a lot of gear and effects as well as incredible technique.
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The is a video of GB on utube where he talks about his octave playing. He adds a note between the octaves. do a search. It is called The Art of Jazz Guitar. Fast forward to about the 40:00 minute mark. That's were he talks about his method of playing octaves.
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Yes... you can add a 3rd, 4th or 5th...between, but then we're not really playing octaves. And I would guess most guitarist have enough difficulty just playing octaves.... Add another layer of harmonic content... the middle voice which should have reference to the harmony or a harmonic concept.
A simple application of the added middle note is to have target points where you use. I use them to start octave passages and as high points, usually with longer rhythmasized attacks.
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I was responding to jnbrown about playing GB style "octaves". Agree that you are not playing octaves but you must admit it does give the "octave" a fuller sound.
Last edited by edh; 06-08-2013 at 11:17 PM.
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The GB Art of Jazz Guitar on Youtube are in 10 minute "chunks" called chunk 1 to 7. Originally Posted by edh
Do you which one it is in? I would really like to see that.
I suppose I will get around to watching them all in detail some time.
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Found a tutorial on it here:
GuitarPlayer: Back to School GITs Mitch Holder Shares the Magic of Harmonized Octaves
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Chunk 5...not much detail, but it's still GB.
Hey edh... GB still usually plays straight octaves most of the... but yea when he fills them in and even plays chord solos... still amazing and sounds beautiful.
Most guitarist have difficulty just playing octaves, then trying to play melodic lines gets really hard. An easier way to create lines with octaves is to use rhythmic ideas, create groove melodies and develop those lines rhythmically.
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I play octaves quite a bit, usually for the melody and for rhythmic stabs, I only use a pick, my thumb is far too slow. I started using octaves with simple melodies.
I play the melody and setup the solo using octaves at the beginning and end of this version of Rainy Day.
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Simple but nice. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Like your tone, pretty smooth for a pick.
Where did you get the backing track from?
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Thanks, I've put a lot of time into trying to get a smoother pick tone. Originally Posted by jnbrown
The backing track is Band in a box "Real Tracks".
Guy
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So do you have any tips on how you did that? Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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I play with the round edge picks at an angle of about 30 degrees to the string, not flat onto the string. Originally Posted by jnbrown
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