View Poll Results: What is the max speed at which you can play 16th notes *cleanly* ?

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  • less than 80 bpm

    43 14.68%
  • 80-100 bpm

    34 11.60%
  • 100-120 bpm

    55 18.77%
  • 120-140 bpm

    75 25.60%
  • 140-160 bpm

    32 10.92%
  • 160-180 bpm

    24 8.19%
  • more than 180 bpm

    30 10.24%
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  1. #401

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    Quote Originally Posted by Binyomin View Post
    I tried about a year ago to get the head to Donna Lee to come out fast enough to sound right. I couldn't do it. I would like to try again since I have been playing alot in the meantime.
    It's a challenge for sure.

    Playing the head is a really a great exercise.
    "As for me, all I know is that I know nothing." - Socrates
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  3. #402

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyK View Post
    How fast should you play the Tennessee Waltz?
    From Nashville or Memphis?
    "As for me, all I know is that I know nothing." - Socrates
    “Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun.” - Alan Wilson Watts

  4. #403

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    Quote Originally Posted by Binyomin View Post
    I tried about a year ago to get the head to Donna Lee to come out fast enough to sound right. I couldn't do it. I would like to try again since I have been playing alot in the meantime.
    I wonder how fast is that in BPM, to sound right? Original is @ abiut 220.

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  5. #404

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    So I played it to my kid asking to categorize in terms of speed
    ... @220 , well, it's faster than before, but only medium, really, in general ...
    ... @120-it's rather slow, even kids could do it that fast, if only they could memorize it ...
    ... @ 240, it is on the edge of being fast, not very fast by any means...

    Now I know why playing fast is not impirtant to us who can not do it, it's because we can not play fast eniugh to impress own children, let alone ...

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  6. #405

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    In an moment of weakness, I've decided to practice some digital patterns ... now my fingers to brain connection and feedback are so messed up Ihat some figures I can not play @ 60% of what I could do yesterday.
    Moral of this story ...

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  7. #406

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    Quote Originally Posted by Binyomin View Post
    I tried about a year ago to get the head to Donna Lee to come out fast enough to sound right. I couldn't do it. I would like to try again since I have been playing alot in the meantime.
    Interesting you say this. I've downloaded a few videos of a few players playing this head at full speed to watch how they handle fingering of the melody.

    It seems has a lot to do with choosing the "best" fingering for you (after experimenting with different sections of the neck) and practicing these sections over and over till you're fluid and then adding the fluid section to what you already do well.

    I've also noticed some players use sweep picking in certain sections which makes sense to me.

    Finally, regarding BPMs. I took the “Donna Lee” MP3 version of the track on this collection and ran it through Riffstation (https://riffstation.com/features_page/) to see what the BPMs was. It came out at 112. I’m thinking that somehow, the software halved the BPM count therefore making the actual BPM – 224? Anyone use this version (Hal Leonard). I’m curious.

    http://www.guitarcenter.com/Hal-Leonard/CHARLIE-PARKER-JAZZ-PLAY-ALONG-VOLUME-26-BK-CD-1274034473400.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=CL LtwPDgxs8CFQ5Efgodhh4JDA&kwid=productads-adid^57619015002-device^c-plaid^144146205642-sku^1274034473400@ADL4GC-adType^PLA
    Last edited by West LA Jazz; 10-06-2016 at 02:18 PM.
    You can't analyze something you can't play! (Robert Conti)

    Technique is the means to play just like your voice is your means to speak. (Robert Conti)

  8. #407

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    Yeah, my comments are similar to others. I'm not a fast player either - they should have called me "Slowhand" instead of Clapton. But I think speed is a relative thing. Most players I know (and admire for their ability) don't consider themselves "fast," but that's probably the same insecurity we all share about our abilities. For me, practicing technique exercises daily makes the difference. I've been playing for a very long time (many decades) and I can play "faster" now than when I was in my 20s or 30s, despite aging fingers. I marvel at those players who have attained speed levels that I could only hope for, perhaps in my next guitar life if reincarnation exists.

  9. #408

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    My computer is dead for more than a week, already, so this was all done by iPhone 4 ...

    I could not quite make it @ 210 bpm, so I thought if I try it @ 240 bpm it would be even worse. I was right about that. It seems doable though. I'll keep trying.




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  10. #409

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    Quote Originally Posted by West LA Jazz View Post
    Interesting you say this. I've downloaded a few videos of a few players playing this head at full speed to watch how they handle fingering of the melody.

    It seems has a lot to do with choosing the "best" fingering for you (after experimenting with different sections of the neck) and practicing these sections over and over till you're fluid and then adding the fluid section to what you already do well.

    I've also noticed some players use sweep picking in certain sections which makes sense to me.

    Finally, regarding BPMs. I took the “Donna Lee” MP3 version of the track on this collection and ran it through Riffstation (https://riffstation.com/features_page/) to see what the BPMs was. It came out at 112. I’m thinking that somehow, the software halved the BPM count therefore making the actual BPM – 224? Anyone use this version (Hal Leonard). I’m curious.

    http://www.guitarcenter.com/Hal-Leonard/CHARLIE-PARKER-JAZZ-PLAY-ALONG-VOLUME-26-BK-CD-1274034473400.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=CL LtwPDgxs8CFQ5Efgodhh4JDA&kwid=productads-adid^57619015002-device^c-plaid^144146205642-sku^1274034473400@ADL4GC-adType^PLA
    I agree with your advice of choosing the best fingering for you in regards to DL. I've tried a few guitarists' fingerings for it, and at 320bpm, none of them work consistently for me.
    The Birelli Lagrene fingering has to be particular to Gypsy style picking, because I find it impossible to play at the tempo he plays it at.
    The Barry Galbraith fingering is also difficult for me to play above 300bpm, because he uses symmetrical fingerings that change positions every two notes in some cases.
    I even have trouble playing it at 320 consistently with my own fingering, which is a good reason to learn other fingerings for it; if I'm having trouble executing some phrases using my own fingering, I can use another one that I find easier to play at that particular instance.

    Of course, there's no point in playing it at 320 if you can't blow on it at that tempo, fluently. I like to end my daily practice sessions blowing on it with the metronome beating only on the first beat of each measure at 320bpm.

  11. #410

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim View Post
    ... I've tried a few guitarists' fingerings for it, and at 320bpm, none of them work consistently for me.
    The Birelli Lagrene fingering has to be particular to Gypsy style picking, because I find it impossible to play at the tempo he plays it at.
    Wow, 320.... I can not eat and walk simultaneously at that speed, let alone think and play guitar ... scary ... Is it all alternate?

    BTW, as far as I could count, Lagrene's versions I found on YT are not 300 - 320 fast. They span from 220 - 280 bpm, only with Jaco 310 ...

    It's sad for me to learn that after I almost succeeded in increasing speed 100%, from 120 to 240 and thought it would be kind of OK, once I manage to do it a bit cleaner, of course, now I have to increase another 20% to even be in a ball park. Poor wife and kid.
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  12. #411

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    I do slow because I like feeling but every now and then I get quick. Even surprises me

  13. #412

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    Wow, 320.... I can not eat and walk simultaneously at that speed, let alone think and play guitar ... scary ... Is it all alternate?

    BTW, as far as I could count, Lagrene's versions I found on YT are not 300 - 320 fast. They span from 220 - 280 bpm, only with Jaco 310 ...

    It's sad for me to learn that after I almost succeeded in increasing speed 100%, from 120 to 240 and thought it would be kind of OK, once I manage to do it a bit cleaner, of course, now I have to increase another 20% to even be in a ball park. Poor wife and kid.
    Yes, alternate with slurs on all the triplets.

  14. #413

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim View Post
    Yes, alternate with slurs on all the triplets.
    Any specific fingerings you'd recommend, for bars, or "licks", you found more difficult than the others?
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  15. #414

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    Any specific fingerings you'd recommend, for bars, or "licks", you found more difficult than the others?
    This guy seems to have found some very good ways of of getting around the tricky parts:
    Donna Lee

  16. #415

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    Is it how you play it?
    Some parts I play almost the same way as he wrote it. Other, I play almost exactly the oposite way, if that makes some sense (Slides and streches).
    For the parts I find the most difficult, I don't even play the same notes, or in same order. It' s only 2-3 notes discrepancy total and 2 notes in reverse, no big deal.
    Anyway, this fingering seem to be "tuned" towards guitar friendly arpeggios. My intention is to be more scalar, rhythm and blues, even rock'n'roll.
    Plus, it'sonly in lower octave, or register to be more correct.
    Why are all guitar versions only in the lower one? When I listen to the recording the siund is very hi pitched and squeeky. OK, maybe the Sax is low and trumpet is hi, but why nobidy plays it hi on the guitar? Nobody wants to be a trumpet? They all want to be saxophones? Why?



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  17. #416

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    Is it how you play it?
    Some parts I play almost the same way as he wrote it. Other, I play almost exactly the oposite way, if that makes some sense (Slides and streches).
    For the parts I find the most difficult, I don't even play the same notes, or in same order. It' s only 2-3 notes discrepancy total and 2 notes in reverse, no big deal.
    Anyway, this fingering seem to be "tuned" towards guitar friendly arpeggios. My intention is to be more scalar, rhythm and blues, even rock'n'roll.
    Plus, it'sonly in lower octave, or register to be more correct.
    Why are all guitar versions only in the lower one? When I listen to the recording the siund is very hi pitched and squeeky. OK, maybe the Sax is low and trumpet is hi, but why nobidy plays it hi on the guitar? Nobody wants to be a trumpet? They all want to be saxophones? Why?



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    You're right, Bird and all the other alto players played it an octave higher than that. Not many trumpet players played it at a very fast tempo, because it's too hard.
    Your fellow countryman Valery Pomeranev is one of the few trumpet players to record it at a tempo above 300bpm.
    I played with him once; that guy could play anything!
    Guitarists don't play it up there, because it would be in 15th position, and it's hard to play up there on some archtops, and things sound weaker the higher up on the guitar you go. There's a book called "Playing Bebop heads on the Guitar" that has it written out in tabs up in 15th.
    It can definitely be done though, and all I'd have to do is re-finger the 5th through 8th bars and I could probably play it well enough. I like to play it in 3rd position, because the sound is stronger there. I can play it in any key, and i always like to play it in F when horn players are playing Indiana.

  18. #417

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    I know it can be done. For one, I do it, as presented in that clip couple of posts above. I don't do it that fast, yet. Also I don't think it sounds weaker there. On the contrary ( I'm usually against the stream, per default). I don't do it in 15th, either. Fingetings I chose for higher register are such so to be applicable on archtops, for reasons you mentioned. On Tele, I could do it more comfortably in 15th. That Valerii guy, he is probably Russian, or there about, but definitely not from my country. By 1000 miles, or so. Not that it matters.
    Also, when I mention trumpet vs. sax, I do not mean some trumoet only version. I speak about Bird and probably Miles playing it together, at once, unison, if we can say it was unisone since they wade around each other not hitting all the same notes, as far as I could hear. Yes, it's not too fast, about 220.



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  19. #418

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    Yes, it's much more easy to play, and sounds better on a good solid body guitar in that octave.
    Actually, using Bireli Lagrene's fingering for DL, you can start it in 13th position rather than 15th, and it would probably be easier to play than his version down an octave in tenth position.

    I think Clifford Brown played an up tempo version of DL in one of his last recordings; taped at a music store concert.

    The most frightening version of DL was by the great Phil Woods with Richie Cole on the album "Side By Side".
    They played it at 352bpm. On the out chorus, after improvising on it for several minutes, Phil Woods buries RC by playing the melody as strong as he did in the beginning. RC just gave up.

  20. #419

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    I'm not too good at following and learning, unless someone directly point me to something and actually tell me what and show me how. On the other hand, hints are also good, more as a food for thought then starting point for further research. So guess I'll stick to my own fingerings for the time being.


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  21. #420

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    An interesting take from a guy I've never heard about until now.

    You can't analyze something you can't play! (Robert Conti)

    Technique is the means to play just like your voice is your means to speak. (Robert Conti)

  22. #421

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    Not going into artistic aspect, it is not overly fast tempo, above version, is it? Well under 200, I'd say?
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  23. #422

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    The link looks like about 180 to 185 to me....

    That is about the fastest I ever got a clean Flight of the Bumble Bee off.

    Wold record is like 320!!!

    I used to challenge myself and try to see what the fastest tempo I could get off some 64th notes was.

  24. #423

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    I can play 2 or maybe even 3 consecutive eighth notes right in the pocket at 300. :-)

  25. #424

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    Not going into artistic aspect, it is not overly fast tempo, above version, is it? Well under 200, I'd say?
    Here's the fastest I've ever heard- Phil solos first:

  26. #425

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    Not going into artistic aspect, it is not overly fast tempo, above version, is it? Well under 200, I'd say?
    This version is for an online Guitar school where they encourage you to transcribe by ear before looking at the written transcription. Yes it is definitely slower. What gets me is the double stops that he throws in. I'm told that he plays this very fast live. Maybe Bireli might be one of the few players who play this head at tempo with double stops included.

    Happy New Year to all!
    You can't analyze something you can't play! (Robert Conti)

    Technique is the means to play just like your voice is your means to speak. (Robert Conti)

  27. #426

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim View Post
    Here's the fastest I've ever heard- Phil solos first:
    I believe Horn players have a supreme advantage over stringed players when it comes to fingering notes. This is especially so with guitar players.

    Phil actually makes Bireli sound "slow" but the truth is, very few of us can play this melody as well as Bireli plays it here.

    You can't analyze something you can't play! (Robert Conti)

    Technique is the means to play just like your voice is your means to speak. (Robert Conti)

  28. #427

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    Quote Originally Posted by West LA Jazz View Post
    I believe Horn players have a supreme advantage over stringed players when it comes to fingering notes. This is especially so with guitar players.

    Phil actually makes Bireli sound "slow" but the truth is, very few of us can play this melody as well as Bireli plays it here.

    He's only playing it at 276 bpm, I could play it and blow on it at that tempo in my sleep. I'm sure there are many

    others who could do the same. Joe Cohn has a video of him playing it at 304bpm. Jimmy Raney played it at a quick tempo on the bootleg/illegal recording of him playing at Bradley's (although I don't have the record, so I don't know the exact tempo).

    Maybe you should listen to real boppers like that if you want to hear it played fast

  29. #428

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim View Post
    He's only playing it at 276 bpm, I could play it and blow on it at that tempo in my sleep. I'm sure there are many

    others who could do the same. Joe Cohn has a video of him playing it at 304bpm. Jimmy Raney played it at a quick tempo on the bootleg/illegal recording of him playing at Bradley's (although I don't have the record, so I don't know the exact tempo).

    Maybe you should listen to real boppers like that if you want to hear it played fast
    Then I surely have homework to do. Dude looks like he's got a fighter pilot's concentration as he negotiates the changes and make the notes ring out clearly without flubbing the notes and focusing on making music.
    You can't analyze something you can't play! (Robert Conti)

    Technique is the means to play just like your voice is your means to speak. (Robert Conti)

  30. #429

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    I can play that tempo in my sleep also.

    OTOH, I can't play anywhere near it when I'm awake.

    But, as speed issues go, for me, a lot of it is knowing what notes I want to play.

    If I have to read something, I can almost always get it up to speed with practice. But, that doesn't mean I can improvise at that tempo. I'm much happier (and play better) at moderate tempi.

    The speed is seductive, but I don't find myself craving speed when I'm in the mood to listen to jazz.

    Two of my all time favorites are Jim Hall and Paul Desmond, who weren't known for playing a lot of notes. Stan Getz played beautifully without playing many notes. Hank Mobley and Stanley Turrentine come to mind.

  31. #430

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    I can play that tempo in my sleep also.

    OTOH, I can't play anywhere near it when I'm awake.

    But, as speed issues go, for me, a lot of it is knowing what notes I want to play.

    If I have to read something, I can almost always get it up to speed with practice. But, that doesn't mean I can improvise at that tempo. I'm much happier (and play better) at moderate tempi.

    The speed is seductive, but I don't find myself craving speed when I'm in the mood to listen to jazz.

    Two of my all time favorites are Jim Hall and Paul Desmond, who weren't known for playing a lot of notes. Stan Getz played beautifully without playing many notes. Hank Mobley and Stanley Turrentine come to mind.
    Oh yeah, it does get tougher when I have to play it while I'm awake...

    Guys like Getz, Hall, Mobley and Mr. T could play fast tempos, too. They were just such melodic players/geniuses that you don't even notice how fast they're playing.

    Desmond seemed to stay away from fast tempos.

    Bireli leaves out/changes a few notes in DL.

  32. #431
    when practicing scales, i mostly play 8th notes with the metronome on 2 and 4, up to around 170, so i guess that is 170 for sixteenth notes. Hoverer, if trying to play actual music picking every note my musical limit would be 150 at best, and still a compromise. Speed has always been difficult for me, and never a priority cause i find other aspects of technique equally challenging, more useful, and more fun to work on. I see some players here, amazing, specially with the benson technique that i struggle with

  33. #432

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    Quote Originally Posted by West LA Jazz View Post
    I believe Horn players have a supreme advantage over stringed players when it comes to fingering notes. This is especially so with guitar players.

    Phil actually makes Bireli sound "slow" but the truth is, very few of us can play this melody as well as Bireli plays it here.



    IMO - Horn Players don't have a supreme advantage over Guitarists...they are just 'better' and there were very high standards set. There may be a few advantages etc. with wider intervals and we have advantages with percussive attack etc.

    Listen to a Concert Violinist and most Guitarists can't play that either and the Violin is NOT easier than Guitar...no frets...vibrato is at a weird Angle on Violin...uses a freaking Bow...pick up a Violin and it's harder than Guitar.

    Violin and Sax have more organized systematic approaches and higher accepted ' Norms' compared to Plectrum Guitar which is far less established.

    So my point is ...it's a little early for Guitar especially Plectrum Guitar...that's most of it right there.


    Every Instrument has it's advantages and disadvantages of course.

    To my ears that super fast Tempo sounds like a Cartoon.
    Now if it was played at a reasonable Tempo where you can hear the Groove and THEN they hit some double-time licks- that might sound a lot better.

    I think that it will be much better as I have said to play at a normal tempo and practice hitting some double time or quadruple time stuff...triplets , septuplets .

    I'm a speed abuser but not crazy tempos...

    Birelli sounds great playing these Runs with beautiful touch - though ..tremendous Musical chops -even some Legato using Pick Control .
    Double and Quadruple Time - not a silly fast Tempo.

    I have a trick for playing as well as Bireli LaGrene- just play a Video of him when he was 12 , maybe 13 or 14 compare yourself to Bireli when he was 13 Not how he plays now.

    I mean I can play some things faster and stay in the Groove but playing BETTER is a different thing-remember that I spent decades catching up to the Fusion Players of the 70s...I am adding a lot more* Groove than they had but speed is not really a marketable skill this late in the game the way it was in the 70s and 80s...
    *Only more than the Fusion Guys -NOT more than Benson -the Guitar Groove King ...lol.
    And Bireli is ridiculous- World Class at so many different Styles ...
    Probably Banjo too if he cared.

    And Bireli -just sitting in a room - he can probably play much faster than in Public.

    There's a Video I once posted of Benson where he plays in 6th Gear not fourth or fifth ...it's like a sheets of sound thing...he is not playing at full speed mostly and his 'time' of couse is often imitated never duplicated - Farrel is close though and he can probably play stupid fast at will- but doesn't ....



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    Last edited by Robertkoa; 08-16-2018 at 12:18 PM.

  34. #433

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa View Post
    IMO - Horn Players don't have a supreme advantage over Guitarists...they are just 'better' and there were very high standards set. There may be a few advantages etc. with wider intervals and we have advantages with percussive attack etc.

    Listen to a Concert Violinist and most Guitarists can't play that either and the Violin is NOT easier than Guitar...no frets...vibrato is at a weird Angle...

    So my point is ...it's a little early for Guitar especially Plectrum Guitar...that's most of it right there.

    Every Instrument has it's advantages and disadvantages of course.

    To my ears that super fast Tempo sounds like a Cartoon.
    Now if it was played at a reasonable Tempo where you can hear the Groove and THEN they hit some double-time licks- that might sound a lot better.
    Well, I don't think that blowing into an instrument has got advantages.
    Hear that mud !

    On saxophone, every note has to be created, on a guitar everything is quite made.

  35. #434

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    Quote Originally Posted by West LA Jazz View Post
    I believe Horn players have a supreme advantage over stringed players when it comes to fingering notes. This is especially so with guitar players.

    Phil actually makes Bireli sound "slow" but the truth is, very few of us can play this melody as well as Bireli plays it here.

    Hum, no...
    Listen to that and tell us which instrument is clearly and cleanly heard, you would be surprised !
    OK, all of them are phenomenons.

  36. #435

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    Do the two words 'molasses' and 'January' convey something in my case?

  37. #436

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert1950 View Post
    Do the two words 'molasses' and 'January' convey something in my case?
    How fast you play, or how fast you respond to threads? Both?

  38. #437

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    This thread is all over the place, which is great. I agree with Reg that the fires are illuminating...


    The whole BPM thing is a bit of a mess for gauging playing speed, because it makes these assumptions:


    - the quarter note is the basis for the beat of BPM (std. assumption)
    - the time signature has "4" in the denominator (std. assumption?)
    - one is playing continuously (inferred assumption)
    - one is picking every note (sometimes inferred)
    - one is typically interested in straight eights BPM speed (maybe 16ths sometimes)


    All this is confounding and requires that the BPM be converted to notes per second to get a straight even comparison:


    Notes per second = (BPM) / (60 seconds) x (1 if measuring quarter notes, 2 for eight notes, 4 for 16ths, etc...)


    For 16ths asked in the poll...


    less than 80 bpm = less than 5.3 notes per second (n/s)
    80-100 bpm = 5.3 to 6.7 n/s
    100-120 bpm = 6.7 to 8 n/s
    120-140 bpm = 8 to 9.4 n/s
    140-160 bpm = 9.4 to 10.6 n/s
    160-180 bpm = 10.6 to 12 n/s
    more than 180 bpm = more than 12 n/s


    Likewise, to convert from n/s to BPM...


    BPM = (n/s) / (1 if measuring quarter notes, 2 for eight notes, 4 for 16ths, etc...) x (60 seconds)


    So for 16th notes played at 16 notes per second...!!! 16 / 4 X 60 = 240 BPM


    Notes per second is invariant with respect to the particular time signature and choice of measured note duration basis.


    Furthermore, an individual guitarist actually has multiple "top speeds" of playing...


    - something they have played many times (physical technical speed)
    - something they are improvising (mental musical speed)


    ... and these are meaningless without some notion of quality control, e.g., performance level quality vs speed testing.


    The real dead honest concern is not how fast one plays, but how fast one hears. As soon as your playing speed exceeds your grasp hearing it, you have forgone quality control. This goes back to discussion of needing to be able to play well faster than you need to - this is just the other side of the coin about needing to be able to hear faster than you play... in order to allow one some "head room" while playing as well as ensuring quality.


    Most rock and blues guitarists are able to play fast because they are playing a finger board pattern as if it is a little drum kit - each note in the pattern is "struck" in the same way that a drummer "strikes" his drum heads and cymbals... he knows where they are (!) because they don't move, so all he has to really do is phrasing/timing - the melodic content is "built-in" to the pattern.


    The jazz player plays the changes - as if the "drum kit" layout were a moving target being re-arranged with the harmony of the progression changes. It is not surprising to me that the more deliberate jazz approach is not so blindly ballistic, but scopes each musical target.


    Even more to the point, soloing is generally not a steady stream of notes but a phrased thing with pauses, changes in note duration, crafted rhythms to support melody, etc. The real measure of speed is subsumed by how good it sounds during improvisation where mental musical speed is the basis for quality of physical technical speed.
    "Bent my ear to hear the tune and closed my eyes to see."

  39. #438

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    Has anyone said: "I'm so fast, I can switch off the light and get into bed before it gets dark!" ...

  40. #439

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarzen View Post
    Guy works his way up to 16th notes at 600 bpm (at 5:22), playing "Flight of the Bumblebee". Owned!

    Cool, I read a headline online that a nerd somewhere or other ran 10 metres in 3.1 seconds and I thought yup, that's credible. It's only three hundred percent faster than the world record which has been zooming up at just under a percent a year for the last century and seemed to be plateauing.

    D.

  41. #440

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    ^^^

    I'd love to play in a band with that guy, so much fun. Reckon he'd be a Babe magnet as well, so even more fun!

  42. #441

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    ^^^

    Reckon he'd be a Babe magnet as well, so even more fun!
    How would you feel about placing the comma here ?

    'so, even more fun.'

    Please don't misunderstand me your intention is in no way opaque and I neither particularly care about grammar nor loathe the manner in which nine year old girls render dialogue on American sit-coms.

    I do suspect however that the phrase would be slightly more easy to convincingly read first time and aloud and at sight, for an adult.

    Perhaps even more fun, or just a little more musical.

    D.

  43. #442

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freel View Post
    ...
    I do suspect however that the phrase would be slightly more easy to convincingly read first time and aloud and at sight, for an adult. ...



    D.
    Wot, u mean, like, there's adults here?

  44. #443

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    I'll let you know if I see any.
    We could tease them.

    D.

  45. #444

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freel View Post
    I'll let you know if I see any.
    We could tease them.

    D.
    Hoisted on my own petard.

    I should have said.

    'We could tease them together or, instead, tease them apart.'

    Sorry.

    D.

  46. #445

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    Damnit , I've fluffed it again. Tricky stuff subtlety. Last try, honest.

    'We could tease them together or, if you prefer, tease them apart.'

    Ah, that feels better.

    Sorry guys, all this talk of syntax pretensions of subtlety has no place on a thread about the far more serious and musical subject of brute speed.
    Last edited by Freel; 08-17-2018 at 07:38 AM.

  47. #446

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freel View Post

    Sorry guys, all this talk of syntax pretensions of subtlety has no place on a thread about the far more serious and musical subject of brute speed.
    Oops, I've done it again.

    'all this talk of syntax and pretensions towards subtlety have no place on a thread concerning the serious and musical subject of brute speed.'

    I really must learn to think things through more thoroughly. It's fun being able to type quickly but that is no excuse for being so sloppy and vague and devoid of intent.

    I will endeavour to spend a little more time on editing and reflection and try and be a little less pleased with my own fatuousness.

    D.

  48. #447

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freel View Post
    ...
    'We could tease them apart or, if you prefer, tease them apart.'
    ...
    Hmm, tough choice, I'll take the 3rd option.

  49. #448

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    You go back and edit if for me, my lunch is ready.

    D.

  50. #449

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    Liquid lunch?

  51. #450

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    Ah, I see you have, always good to have a little help, so easy to miss the point when in a rush.

    Thanks.