View Poll Results: What is the max speed at which you can play 16th notes *cleanly* ?

Voters
295. You may not vote on this poll
  • less than 80 bpm

    43 14.58%
  • 80-100 bpm

    34 11.53%
  • 100-120 bpm

    55 18.64%
  • 120-140 bpm

    75 25.42%
  • 140-160 bpm

    33 11.19%
  • 160-180 bpm

    25 8.47%
  • more than 180 bpm

    30 10.17%
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  1. #301

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    I don't want to brag, but last night I played so fast that the tailpiece on my guitar exploded.
    Build bridges, not walls.

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  3. #302

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    Thanks Jack, I appreciate your kind words brother, but it's cool man.

    Rich seems like a straight forward cat with some mad skill accompanied by strong opinions. I don't expect to be above criticism, but it was a bit out of left field, I guess, seeing as my post was neither claiming anything or boasting, nor was I necessarily seeking critique...but hey it's the internet. It comes with the territory.

    I've managed to play, compose, arrange, music direct, orchestrate full time for the past quarter century with a singular goal: to do my best for the overall good of any situation with which I've been entrusted and get better, all the while fully supporting my family. I must be doing something right.
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  4. #303

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Jones View Post
    Thanks Jack, I appreciate your kind words brother, but it's cool man.

    Rich seems like a straight forward cat with some mad skill accompanied by strong opinions. I don't expect to be above criticism, but it was a bit out of left field, I guess, seeing as my post was neither claiming anything or boasting, nor was I necessarily seeking critique...but hey it's the internet. It comes with the territory.

    I've managed to play, compose, arrange, music direct, orchestrate full time for the past quarter century with a singular goal: to do my best for the overall good of any situation with which I've been entrusted and get better, all the while fully supporting my family. I must be doing something right.
    Good for you, Scott. And great playing. You sound more than good to me.

  5. #304

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecj View Post
    Good for you, Scott. And great playing. You sound more than good to me.
    Thanks, brother! MUCH appreciated!
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  6. #305

  7. #306

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    where's the clip that rich objected to?
    No idea. It seemed like a sweeping statement about my jazz playing, in general. I didn't even post a clip. I just answered the topic question, generically, with no clip. I guess the link in my sig?
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  8. #307

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    Usually there's some truth in Rich's criticisms, but it always gets ruined by the fact that the guy simply cannot make a point without coming off as a complete jerk.

    But this one I don't get. I hear Scott in pocket when needed, on top or ahead when it sounds good, I hear a great player with great time.

    It's just cuz you're not Metheny or Benson, Scott (the only 2 players in history who have escaped his ire) Don't let him rattle ya.
    Last edited by mr. beaumont; 04-11-2014 at 02:57 PM.
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  9. #308

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Usually there's some truth in Rich's criticisms, but it always gets ruined by the fact that the guy simply cannot make a point without coming off as a complete jerk.

    But this one I don't get. I hear Scott in pocket when needed, on top or ahead when it sounds good, I hear a great player with great time.

    It's just cuz you're not Metheny or Benson, Scott (the only 2 players in history who have escaped his ire) Don't let him rattle ya.
    Not rattled. I've not needed his opinion for the 30+ years I've been playing. I'm grateful to be able to play anything remotely good enough for anyone to like, even a little bit.

    And I count myself fortunate that I am neither Metheny or Benson. Both heroes of mine, but my path is my own to travel.
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  10. #309

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Jones View Post
    Thanks for your input! Coming from such a masterful player as yourself, I always appreciate those kinds of insights! Anyone with the balls to bust Russell Malone's chops, can bust mine anytime!
    I am relatively new to this forum compared to the some of you gents and I assume ladies.

    Not to step into a hornet's nest. I only discovered Russell Malone a few years ago even though he's been around for ages. Even though he's had a couple of solo outings (that I know of), I gather he is mostly a first call sideman to some really top level players including Elvis Costello's wife... Diana Krall.

    Russell Malone is a pretty impressive player to me so ....

    This is the 2nd time I've heard of someone here busting a pro level player's chops here.

    My two questions...

    A: What about Russell's playing doesn't said ball buster dislike? I'm not naming names because I wasn't part of the conversation.

    B: Is said ball buster of Russell Malone a pro level player or a hobbyist who plays at pro levels?


    PS: There are numerous clips of Russell Malone talking about advice her received from Jazz legends like Jimmy Smith (who humiliated a young Russell Malone and admonished him for not playing what the music called for) and Kenny Burrell who I think gave advice along those lines also.


    PPS: Scott your stuff rocks the house. Keep on trucking!

  11. #310

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    Quote Originally Posted by West LA Jazz View Post
    I am relatively new to this forum compared to the some of you gents and I assume ladies.

    Not to step into a hornet's nest. I only discovered Russell Malone a few years ago even though he's been around for ages. Even though he's had a couple of solo outings (that I know of), I gather he is mostly a first call sideman to some really top level players including Elvis Costello's wife... Diana Krall.

    Russell Malone is a pretty impressive player to me so ....

    This is the 2nd time I've heard of someone here busting a pro level player's chops here.

    My two questions...

    A: What about Russell's playing doesn't said ball buster dislike? I'm not naming names because I wasn't part of the conversation.

    B: Is said ball buster of Russell Malone a pro level player or a hobbyist who plays at pro levels?


    PS: There are numerous clips of Russell Malone talking about advice her received from Jazz legends like Jimmy Smith (who humiliated a young Russell Malone and admonished him for not playing what the music called for) and Kenny Burrell who I think gave advice along those lines also.


    PPS: Scott your stuff rocks the house. Keep on trucking!
    Thanks!

    My reply was to say that if someone will disparage someone like Malone, they will feel comfortable doing it to anyone.
    At the end of the day, everyone has a right to their opinions. I just wish tact was a part of it. Other than that. I do not care.
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  12. #311

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    IIRC, RichB didn't like Malone because he was playing in a traditional style and not innovating.

    I love Russel Malone. He's like the Wynton or Branford Marsalis of jazz guitar in how he's absorbed the entire tradition into his playing. When you see him he goes between Charlie Christian, Joe Pass, Wes, Pat Martino, Lenny Breau harp harmonics. It's so fun watching him and catching all the pieces of the tradition that he busts out.

  13. #312

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecj View Post
    IIRC, RichB didn't like Malone because he was playing in a traditional style and not innovating.

    I love Russel Malone. He's like the Wynton or Branford Marsalis of jazz guitar in how he's absorbed the entire tradition into his playing. When you see him he goes between Charlie Christian, Joe Pass, Wes, Pat Martino, Lenny Breau harp harmonics. It's so fun watching him and catching all the pieces of the tradition that he busts out.

    Maybe this is what made him who he is today. I may not have recovered if what he says at the beginning of the video happened to me.


  14. #313

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    I have to say this one.

    That's the following 2:

    1. The Emperor is naked. Or You'd rather blow some whistle.

    2. Recently there was a parallel made, in another thread, it was about boxing champions, their coaches and the proportion of skills they possesed and exhibited.

    3. Some of you may not be aware, but people who are subscribed to particular threads, if you're not fast enough, they can see original posts on e-mail, no matter how much you edited, or even completely deleted them.
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  15. #314

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    I have to say this one.

    That's the following 2:

    1. The Emperor is naked. Or You'd rather blow some whistle.

    2. Recently there was a parallel made, in another thread, it was about boxing champions, their coaches and the proportion of skills they possesed and exhibited.

    3. Some of you may not be aware, but people who are subscribed to particular threads, if you're not fast enough, they can see original posts on e-mail, no matter how much you edited, or even completely deleted them.

    My friend. Share what's on your mind. Metaphors can be confusing. I gave a boxing analogy earlier. Help me here, kind sir!

    And this (below) is said with a little humor (thanks to google translate)...

    мој пријатељ. деле оно што ти је на уму. метафоре може бити збуњујуће. Дао сам бокс аналогију. Помози ми овде

  16. #315

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    1. If I was USA citizen, I'd quote constitution, or some amendment to it.

    2. I don't have to be a good player to hear something's played bad.
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  17. #316

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post

    2. I don't have to be a good player to hear something's played bad.
    Very true my friend.

    Here is a professional guitarist probably not known outside of his circles doing very jazzy stuff on a strat. He's so different from what I normally am used to hearing that I enjoying hearing his style of playing. Especially his chordal work.


  18. #317

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    2. I don't have to be a good player to hear something's played bad.
    You are absolutely right, but I'd like to add that you can still respect the musician for his work and his ability (moreso when your personal musical achievements are modest), even though you don't like what he's playing. And to make an analogy : there are women that I don't find attractive, but I can still say that they are good looking (if that makes any kind of sense).
    Last edited by Nabil B; 04-12-2014 at 03:43 AM.

  19. #318

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    I quite agree on women looks analogy. Also, there are some I find attractive, while I don't think they're even pretty. And then, there are some, globaly accepted as attractive, but I find them at the edge of repulsive and disgusting.

    Whenever RichB says something, I try to figure what he was hearing to make him say so.
    In case of Scott Jones, IMO, it's mostly down to mix, because tunes were not mixed in accordance to the way they were played.

    In case of Russel Malone, Iwas actually the one who was first to say that one clip sounded hard and unmusical. I don't think there's any disrespect in that. There are facts and there are opinions and tastes. We don't have to cite the facts when we give an opinion originating from our tastess.
    Further, I did not notice people on this forum call on respect when dissed are Kenny G, or someone to the likes of Britany Spears, who also have rich and long lasting careers, with loads of fans who consider them genious, and so on.

    Whoever published own work, one agreed to accept being critiqued in any way. Those of modest skills more so. However, those of modest skills usually pass unnoticed. Fact is, you have to have something first place, in order to be noticed, even the comments are not all that good. It's a sign you have something of worth to present. And so on...
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  20. #319

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    Re: Wynton Marsalis clip, I can't remember when/ if I witnessed this level of technical competency, on any instrument.
    Clifford Brown. Best sound I ever heard in jazz. Lot's of guys are fast but he had a perfect tone too.

  21. #320

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarzen View Post
    Guy works his way up to 16th notes at 600 bpm (at 5:22), playing "Flight of the Bumblebee". Owned!

    When a guitar sounds like a Game Boy !!! Great performance, great timing.

    Last edited by Lionelsax; 04-23-2014 at 07:05 PM.

  22. #321

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    Terrible noise.

  23. #322

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    fake!

  24. #323

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcwhy View Post
    You need one more voting button: "Does it really matter?"
    I don't know how much it matters how fast one can play 16th notes cleanly. But I do know two things.

    First, playing fast is central to jazz (-lots of classic swing tunes are above 200 bpm and some bop tunes push closer to, and past, 300 bpm). That's fast. If you can't play that fast, you have to sit out on those tunes.

    Second, it is good to be able to play things faster than performance tempo because you're not always at your best and need a cushion. (If you can play a bop tune cleanly at 350, you're not going to have a problem handling it live at 320, even if you're not at your best.)

    Piano players and sax players seem to have an easier time playing fast than do guitar players. Jimmy Bruno has talked about changing his picking so that he could handle fast bop heads / lines on the guitar. Other guitar players too have worked hard to figure out ways to hang at fast tempos on the guitar. For players such as John Scofield, who has admitted his right hand isn't as swift and sure as he would like, this meant developing a legato style with slurs and such. Conversely, many players whose style---Gypsy jazz, for example---requires top-flight right hand technique, have worked like dogs to develop it.

    I think being able to play fast, really fast and clean, is important to this guy:

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  25. #324

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    Clifford Brown. Best sound I ever heard in jazz. Lot's of guys are fast but he had a perfect tone too.
    Clifford was a marvel. I love his playing on this tune, "Blues Walk."

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  26. #325

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    Let's face it, playing fast WHEN NEEDED is very important (Bebop etc). And we aren't even talking about classical music..yet or ever.

    Now it takes HOURS of practice to acquire "chops" so most players who say it's not important actually mean to say that it's not important to the tunes they chose to play.

    Scofield sitting in with a top flight bee bop group would have to resort to playing quarter and 8th notes.
    I'm sure he'll sound nice but he won't be spewing notes as fast as say Benson or some of those other cats.

    There's no need for speed if all you want to do is play jazz ballads and do so very very effectively.

    It's ALL good!

  27. #326

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    Quote Originally Posted by West LA Jazz View Post

    There's no need for speed if all you want to do is play jazz ballads and do so very very effectively.

    It's ALL good!
    This may be true, though several players have commented that playing well on a slow blues is a great challenge because of the mix of fast and slow phrases. (That is, at 60 bpm, you will play eighths and sixteenths, some thirty-seconds, half-notes here and there- and you can be more daring in how you play around the beat, whereas on fast tunes, the 8ths tend to even out.)
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  28. #327

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    IMHO, I think very few players actually improvise when playing fast, they sound like they're playing well rehearsed licks and phrases. I'm not saying playing like that is easy, because it's not, it's a lot of very, very hard work.
    “I will not let anyone walk through my mind with their dirty feet.”
    ― Mahatma Gandhi

  29. #328

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuyBoden View Post
    IMHO, I think very few players actually improvise when playing fast, they sound like they're playing well rehearsed licks and phrases. I'm not saying playing like that is easy, because it's not, it's a lot of very, very hard work.
    As Joe Pass said, "I'm not making it up as I go along!"
    When the tempo is bright, you realize you must play what you CAN play and there's less material to rely on at top speed than mid-tempo or for a ballad. Now, some guys have a deep well of material they can execute above 300 bpm---Herb Ellis, for example---but they're only going to play things they can play that fast.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  30. #329

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    Regarding playing at high speeds...

    IF music is a language (and it is),… no one can just get up one day and start speaking.

    You have to practice with people who speak the language.

    Like music, blocks of what makes any language what it is (understandable to a listener) becomes second nature and so in the heat of a musical passage the player can connect different phrases and altered phrases together to sound almost fresh and "fresh" each time.

    Connecting these musical passages is also a function of finger patterns (that are memorized so much so that the player can play blind folded) and the memorization of musical phrases that the player can either play them backwards or jump in halfway through the musical phrase and still play it out to the end. Coltrane did this.

    The player knows which finger patterns work with major, minor, dominant and altered chords. Soon the player is able to start from any point within the patterns. Each pattern is associated with a "sound". So you can break of a chunk and splice it backwards to create a different sound.

    I believe this is when creativity has kicked in (after all this memorizing) and this creativity also depends on how deep your well of musical "words and phrases" the player possess.



    I took a class with Bruce Forman last year. He noticed that I held my pick at an almost 45 degree angle to the string. He encouraged me to make it almost parallel. This caused me to think back to when I started playing like that. I remembered that it was my solution to using heavier picks and trying to strum and pick without the heavy pick chocking on the string at higher speeds. Lighter picks are easier to attack the strings in a parallel motion because they have more "give" to them and sort of brush over the string easier.

    Last year, I felt I needed more finger dexterity to play songs like ATTYA are full speed and so for the past nine months I have used a certain teacher's (who some on here often bash) method to increase finger speed and most importantly getting my right hand to talk to my left hand (hand Co-ordination). In 9 months the difference has been really discernible. Now playing at 300bpm isn't far off but it's not the be all end all.

    My thing is it's good for me to have IF and when I need to deploy faster passages, I don't have to stumble.

    Finally, any time I hear Al Dimeola playing slow sweet passages I pay more attention because some how Al playing slow passages is like a storm that suddenly decides to whisper.

    Develop chops if you have to but deploy with discretion and as needed.
    Last edited by West LA Jazz; 07-20-2014 at 05:54 PM.

  31. #330

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    Quote Originally Posted by West LA Jazz View Post
    IF music is a language (and it is),… no one can just get up one day and start speaking.
    You know, it just struck me that although we talk about music being a language, we give ourselves much more credit for novelty / spontaneity in our speech than we deserve. I think we can all be "broken records" on pet subjects. When not repeating ourselves, we tend to suggest much more than we make plain.

    Writers have a saying that good dialogue is the illusion of real speech. Anyone who has read a court transcript knows the vast difference between how people actually talk and how vivid characters in good fiction speak.

    I think of good jazz lines the way I think of good dialogue----idealized speech. The way we wish we talked all the time but rarely do.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  32. #331

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    Somewhat tagential on above ...

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  33. #332

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    Somewhat tagential on above ...
    Thanks, Vladan! I enjoyed that. Every bloomin' word of it.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  34. #333

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    Pat Metheny quotes from this video interview:

    “Until the 50s there weren’t that many players who could (sort of equally hang) at the same level with Charlie Parker”
    (By "hang" I take it Pat is talking about competence on the instrument that is relatively new to Jazz)

    "Guitar is still a relatively new instrument in jazz"

    "At it's best music transcends style"

    "The beauties of the invention of jazz is that it allows people to bring who they are to the table"

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I love Pat Metheny's music but he is probably more outspoken than almost anyone I can think of in music.
    But his success is undeniable even though I won't forgive him for condemning Kenny G! :-)

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I love it! This topic just won't die. I guess we're still kibitzing over what a new art form should be and sound like.


  35. #334

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    Quote Originally Posted by West LA Jazz View Post
    Pat Metheny quotes from this video interview:

    “Until the 50s there weren’t that many players who could (sort of equally hang) at the same level with Charlie Parker”
    (By "hang" I take it Pat is talking about competence on the instrument that is relatively new to Jazz)
    I remember the disappointment I felt after seeking out early bebop recordings with guitar on them---it didn't sound good to me at all. They seemed to be straining to keep up, playing lots of arpeggios in a stiff fashion. Mind you, I couldn't have done half as well, but I just didn't care for those guitar parts. (I'm not saying this about ALL sessions with guitar players on Charlie Parker records, but only about the first ones I tracked down and heard. And I'm not saying those guys were bad or anything like that; I'm saying that as a kid who played guitar, was coming to love jazz, and found out there were Parker records with guitar on them, my response was, "O.....O well.")
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  36. #335

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    I used to study all of Michael Angelo Batios lessons and play all his tunes so yea I got speed. but what I want now is to play great melodies . I am rediscovering Santana trying to figure out how to blend blinding riffs with soaring melodies.
    Last edited by EOE; 01-10-2015 at 05:38 PM.

  37. #336

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles View Post
    I don't want to brag, but last night I played so fast that the tailpiece on my guitar exploded.
    That is nothing. When I get going humming birds flock around my hand thinking it's their mother. It's annoying because they are not from my part of the world and can't deal with the climate so they die and I get shtick from the the RSPB for all the bags of dead humming birds. It's so annoying.

  38. #337

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arpeggio View Post
    That is nothing. When I get going humming birds flock around my hand thinking it's their mother. It's annoying because they are not from my part of the world and can't deal with the climate so they die and I get shtick from the the RSPB for all the bags of dead humming birds. It's so annoying.

    the most interesting man in the world

  39. #338

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    well I play jazz fusion lots of funk and afro/Cuban with neo- classical tendencies. I call it jazz because the jazz world excepts me.... you miss the point of a fast phrase. you are not supposed to hear each note as a melody but the complete phrase as one note in the melody. if you are tying to hear a melody in that fast run you are missing what the player is trying to say. step back and look at I from a conductors point of view look at the sonic landscape as a whole. check it out..https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=4WmEy98yTao
    Last edited by EOE; 01-10-2015 at 06:04 PM.

  40. #339

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    Quote Originally Posted by EOE View Post
    well I play jazz fusion lots of funk and afro/Cuban with neo- classical tendencies. I call it jazz because the jazz world excepts me.... you miss the point of a fast phrase. you are not supposed to hear each note as a melody but the complete phrase a one note in the melody. if you are tying to hear a melody in that fast run you are missing what the player is trying to say. step back and look at I from a conductors point of view look at the sonic landscape as a whole.
    I'll buy that.

  41. #340

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    check it out
    Last edited by EOE; 01-10-2015 at 05:54 PM.

  42. #341

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    Does legato count? If that's the case I can play 32nd notes at 200bpm

  43. #342

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    Quote Originally Posted by stellarstar View Post
    Does legato count? If that's the case I can play 32nd notes at 200bpm
    Haha, dude...no.

    You are claiming that you can double-time at 400 bpm.

  44. #343

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    Hmm that's about 25 notes per second... I guess I could do that if I found a wormhole to a supermassive black hole and was experiencing time dilation.

  45. #344

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecj View Post
    Haha, dude...no.

    You are claiming that you can double-time at 400 bpm.
    Yeah i'm probably off, I think i'm pretty fast though

  46. #345

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    When practising / progressing from 16ths @ 60pbm to 16ths @ 80bpm you are increasing speed by 25%

    When practising / progressing from 16ths @120 bpm to 16ths @140bpm you are increasing speed by 14.3%

    180bpm to 200pbm = 10%

    So it gets easier the faster you get.....Right?

  47. #346

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    No, or we'd all be equally fast, as fast as Usain Bolt is.
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  48. #347

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    I'll jump back in, here....


    It's related to "speed". And most of all, perseverance.


    After not being able to play for nearly a year from a neck, elbow, hand injury. Literally not being able to play AT ALL for many months and as recently as last September, could only play 8th notes at 72BPM, I'm back playing and recording again after MUCH physical therapy, spinal steroid injections, steroid injections into my elbow, steroid patches on my hand......AND, I purchased a light weight, thin neck, Carvin Holdsworth HH2x which has made a HUGE difference and likely will allow for a sustainable career, after all of this trauma.


    Here's a link to some of my compositions. ALL instruments and solos, done by myself. I went back and re-tracked ALL of my guitar parts on these within the past month with my new Carvin HH2! Lots of "fast playing", but contextually appropriately so. And most of all, grateful I can even play again AT ALL.
    Hope ya dig!


    https://scottjonesmusic.bandcamp.com...the-carvin-hh2

    LOVE THIS INSTRUMENT!
    Attached Images Attached Images Poll: How Fast Are You?-image-jpg 
    Last edited by Scott Jones; 03-30-2015 at 04:45 PM.
    MY FUSION RELEASE "REMEMBER" W THE CARVIN HH2, and MY ORCHESTRAL RELEASE
    https://scottjonesmusic.bandcamp.com/

    MY SET ON SOUNDCLOUD OF VARIOUS STYLES
    https://soundcloud.com/scottjonesmus...-various-short

    MY BLOG
    https://sjonesmusic.wordpress.com

  49. #348

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    What about the audience's point of view, do some people prefer to hear slow music, do some prefer to hear fast music and do some like a mixture of both.
    “I will not let anyone walk through my mind with their dirty feet.”
    ― Mahatma Gandhi

  50. #349

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    hey man dig it a lot!!
    Silence is only frightening to people who are compulsively verbalizing.
    ~ Bill Lee

  51. #350

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Jones View Post
    I'll jump back in, here....


    It's related to "speed". And most of all, perseverance.


    After not being able to play for nearly a year from a neck, elbow, hand injury. Literally not being able to play AT ALL for many months and as recently as last September, could only play 8th notes at 72BPM, I'm back playing and recording again after MUCH physical therapy, spinal steroid injections, steroid injections into my elbow, steroid patches on my hand......AND, I purchased a light weight, thin neck, Carvin Holsdworth HH2x which has made a HUGE difference and likely will allow for a sustainable career, after all of this trauma.


    Here's a link to some of my compositions. ALL instruments and solos, done by myself. I went back and re-tracked ALL of my guitar parts on these within the past month with my new Carvin HH2! Lots of "fast playing", but contextually appropriately so. And most of all, grateful I can even play again AT ALL.
    Hope ya dig!


    https://scottjonesmusic.bandcamp.com...the-carvin-hh2

    LOVE THIS INSTRUMENT!
    hey really dig scott!
    Silence is only frightening to people who are compulsively verbalizing.
    ~ Bill Lee