The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Greetings all you beautiful people!, ive been noticing the way Andreas Oberg uses his pick, (Him and many many others)
    Their picking hand doesnt touch the guitar at all, just the pick. I just started practicing this technique this week and its super awkward for now, was wondering if anybody had any insight or experience with this!

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  3. #2

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    I think Oberg developed some of his great style playing with the Hot Club of Norway, and anchoring to the top is usually not done in that genre. Gypsy guitars don't sound their best when the the top is dampened and Gypsy instructors will usually discourage it. Muting the soundboard of any acoustic guitar may be counterproductive, depending on intent.

  4. #3

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    I recently made the switch from anchored to floating a couple of months ago, though I mainly use economy picking instead of strict alternate. I'm now a floating convert, it's better for the tendons in your wrist and you get more volume/dynamics. The big muscle at the base of my thumb (abductor pollicis brevis) gently grazes the G,B and high E strings, whereas on the low E, A and D strings it's just the pick. I'm pretty happy this way for now, will be interested to see what other people have figured out.

    I found this article by Julian Lage about picking:
    If I could “bounce” on the string—effectively sensing the equal force between the string and my hand—all I’d need to do to make the string sound would be to give up my resistance. Like the diver on the diving board, I could let the springiness of the string do more of the work. Rather than being propelled away from the string, I would cease meeting the string with equal force, and instead, give up. Let the string win. By imagining the string almost cutting up through the pick (on a downstroke), it felt as though the string played itself and I was there to create just enough friction to get things started.
    After doing this a few times, I noticed that for the first time, I didn’t feel tension in picking the string. The sound wasn’t very loud at first, but it sounded fuller and like a more complete gesture. After practicing downstrokes for a while, I tried upstrokes and was pleased to find the same mechanism applied. As I would place the pick on the bottom side of the string in preparation for an upstroke, I felt my habitual tensing and urge to “lift” up. However, from this new perspective I was able to meet the resistance of the string and imagine the string falling through the pick. Like the downstroke, the sound seemed to release out of the instrument rather than being forced.
    This experience soon became the foundation for how I approach picking. Starting with open strings, I eventually transitioned to playing scales and arpeggios, using both alternate picking, as well as sweeping. There are times when I’ll choose to override the string with a big downstroke or upstroke. However, I regularly come back to this practice as a means of resetting my concept of how much pressure I think I need to put into picking. Inevitably, it is a lot less than I think.
    - See more at: Digging Deeper: The Diving-Board Effect - Premier Guitar

    Read more: Digging Deeper: The Diving-Board Effect - Premier Guitar

    when I tried to pick how he described, I found I naturally switched to a floating technique, even though he doesn't explicitly state in the article whether to float or anchor.





  5. #4

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    anchoring your picking hand is simply incorrect. there's no advantage to it. though you can still play well with an anchored hand (kurt rosenwinkel), it's ultimately just limiting what you can do.

    a floating hand will be awkward at first if you are not used to it, as with anything, but in the end it offers more control, freedom, and efficiency. i don't really think there's a debate about this.

  6. #5

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    When you speak of floating hand, does that mean picking from the wrist or from the elbow?

  7. #6

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    I kindly disagree with mfa (no disrespect intended). Tuck Andress wrote a detailed analysis on picking technique.(Tuck & Patti: Pick & Fingerstyle Techniques)

    He concurs:
    "1.1.4 Standard style, variation 1: Suspended fist technique exhibited by Joe Pass, Barney Kessel and many older players who at some point probably had to play hard in order to get volume out of their guitars: This is the standard style, but the remaining fingers are closed into a loose or tight fist, eliminating any contact between the hand and the guitar other than through the pick.


    Advantages: By moving the mass of the fingers closer to the axis of rotation of the wrist, there is effectively less excess baggage to swing around. An analogy would be a dancer or skater doing a pirouette, then pulling limbs in tighter to spin faster. When it works, it feels like you're flying.


    Disadvantages: Same as the standard style, plus I witnessed often dramatic inconsistency of accuracy in even the greatest of players related to losing the point of reference of fingers touching pickguard. There are definitely good days and bad days, and I mainly wanted to have good days. I reasoned that this was not worth pursuing, since consistent feel and accuracy were more important to me than volume on an acoustic instrument. Still I spent a lot of hours working on it just to have the experience."


    That is consistent with how I feel about picking (the point of reference argument) and after reading this I stopped feeling bad about anchoring. he comes to the conclusion that the "Benson" technique is the best, but I haven't managed to ease into this either. I have known jazz guitar teachers though that where quite specific that anchoring is an advantage.

    Different things work for different people and at the end of the day all great guitarists look good and relaxed with the way they do it. Players who consistently impress me with their expressive dynamics are gypsy players ... And yes, they do not anchor.

  8. #7

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    I anchored my pinky for years and found it very limiting. The cloud lifted after I floated above the strings. It strengthened my wrist and improved my overall articulation. I also went through a significant period of curling my fingers and letting the nails graze the pick guard. That served as locator. Now I float but can easily drop my palm on the bridge for muting when I need to.

    I've gone through many transitions with my right hand technique. I did straight arm for many years. Going to wrist only was a massive change, but completely changed the way I could articulate.

  9. #8
    So i've gathered that you must pick from the wrist, and Float, meaning nothing but the pick touches the strings, guess i've got a lot of re-learning to do, thank you all though, i really appreciate it!

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3625
    The big muscle at the base of my thumb (abductor pollicis brevis) gently grazes the G,B and high E strings, whereas on the low E, A and D strings it's just the pick. I'm pretty happy this way for now, will be interested to see what other people have figured out.
    Sorry made a mistake here, I meant to say when I was playing the G,B and high E strings, the base of my thumb is lightly grazing the bass strings. But all of this is obviously variable from person to person, posture, angle of guitar etc.

    I play from the wrist, not the elbow. Kind of a floppy, dangling kind of motion (best I could describe lol)

  11. #10

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    I use both... obviously what I'm playing has influence. Generally my little finger acts as a fixed point of reference when playing arpeggios, leaps etc... Somewhat like a stop when moving away from the strings.

    I would dig seeing what the so called floating players can cover... what and how you play different phrases etc... when say sight reading... soloing at fast tempos. Not memorized licks etc... Anything works well when the limits aren't being pushed.

    When I watch most guitarist who cover faster tempos... they anchor somewhere, Andres, Bireli etc... they use inside of hand, wrist or have fingers, again acting as a stop.

    Reg

  12. #11

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    as I said, many great players do anchor their pinky, but it's simply not optimal technique. people always say they can play faster while anchoring, or that it's more comfortable. well, of course. that's the way you've practiced it your whole life. put in the same amount of hours floating and you'll have better speed and be in a different universe in terms of musicality and articulation.

    i can assure you from personal experience that floating is no limit to sight reading or arpeggios or anything. i cant even think of why that would be the case. there's no reason why not anchoring your hand would slow you down in any way (provided you have developed the technique). that's just nonsensical.

    floating allows you to transition the whole spectrum from light single string picking to full on six string strumming seamlessly. fingerstyle is better floating as well. i mean, you have to float to do fingerstyle with all five fingers anyway. and how can you hybrid pick with an anchored finger?

    sorry, again, many great players get by with anchoring their fingers, but its a weakness. floating enables you to do everything with the same core technique, and because of this there is no limit on your playing, but you do have to practice it to become proficient, as with anything.

    (and i generally lightly rest my forearm/elbow area on the top/side of the guitar fwiw. i think that's pretty standard.)

  13. #12

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    Sounds great... how about posting some of your playing to show examples of what your calling the only logical choice.

    Real live example of reading through some faster tempo examples, hopefully not staring at your fretboard. I have a couple hundred examples of my picking posted on this forum... don't really think of my playing as just getting by... but will gladly post again.

    Reg
    Last edited by Reg; 02-28-2013 at 01:47 PM.

  14. #13

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    Maybe, I'm not exactly sure of the correct definition of the "floating Hand Picking" method, but Frank Gambale seems to be using a "floating Hand Picking" method, he's not anchored to the bridge, but his arm is anchored on the top/side of his guitar.

    I play very similar to this method. Is this the "floating Hand Picking" method?
    Last edited by Dirk; 01-09-2020 at 08:34 AM.

  15. #14

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    Looks to me as though he anchors hand to bridge and def. uses small finger as stop. So I wouldn't call floating..

    Just a note...he is playing a solid body with more of a rock style technique... very different than playing a jazz box with jazz technique.

    Reg

  16. #15

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    Maybe, he alternates between using the bridge and his forearm as anchors. He seems to be using his forearm as an anchor, look at 0:34 sec.

    Yeah, it's a Yamaha SG2000, they have a thin body, very different than improvising on a jazz box, but Frank Gambale is definitely in the fast player league.

    Guy

  17. #16

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    @mfa, I am happy that this technique works so well for you - but frankly speaking, I did not like how you demanded absolute truth to the statement that only a floating picking hand makes logical sense. Anyways, 'nuff said - whatever works :-)

  18. #17

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    so what do the exclusive floating hand players do to achieve palm muting?

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuyBoden
    Maybe, he alternates between using the bridge and his forearm as anchors. He seems to be using his forearm as an anchor, look at 0:34 sec.

    Yeah, it's a Yamaha SG2000, they have a thin body, very different than improvising on a jazz box, but Frank Gambale is definitely in the fast player league.

    Guy
    Hey Guy... When I look at 0:34 and on... he's using his little finger as a stop or reference.

    Maybe we need to define what we're talking about. When I'm implying floating , I mean no contact between hand and the guitar... Your reference for picking is...??? Forearm, mid arm... Not sure.

    When I don't use a reference... my pick guard... I develop my reference from somewhat continuous picking. The reference if from the previous attack. Usually not a problem as long as I'm playing. I'm no expert with terminology...

    Not sure what you mean mja... I thought you were a floating hand player.

    Reg

  20. #19


    Boom!, there it is, i found my proof thank you all very much for your input!, but i think one of my favorites (Vignola) shows exactly what i was curious about in the video, i am now a beginner floating picker!

  21. #20

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    I think there's a big difference between an "anchor" and an "anchor". The term gets applied to basically everyone whose hand touches the guitar or strings, but there's a big difference between the ways they are used.

    Look at someone like Troy Stetina (the speed mechanics guy) to see what a real, honest-to-god anchor looks like. He sticks his pinky out super rigid, pushes it into the guitar by the volume knob, and doesn't move it it all as he plays. It ends up being the pivot around which everything else moves. McLaughlin is another guy who describes what he's doing as a real anchor. He sticks his wrist against the bridge of the guitar, and doesn't move it at all.

    Now look at someone like Benson. He has his pinky and usually third finger wresting on the pickguard, but depending on which era you look at, they move around an awful lot. Is he really anchoring his hand on the instrument, or is his hand just relaxes and loosely grazing? Joe Pass does this, too. Everyone says he picks with a floating hand, but his 2-4th fingers on his right hand are pretty much constantly laying against the pickguard while he plays. Is that an anchor?

    Even Martino, who is pretty much the quintessential floating-hand player, lets his hand graze the strings close to the base of his thumb while he picks. Again, is that an anchor, or what?

    I can't really think of anyone who doesn't use some kind of point of reference on the guitar while they play. Maybe some of the older guys like Kessel and Ellis. I know Django purportedly didn't, and it's dogma amongst the modern gypsy scene.

    Not sure where I fall on this. I'm way to uncoordinated to ever successfully play with no contact, but I've never liked the tense feeling of having a real anchor.

  22. #21

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    Hard to see if Vignola is resting his pinky or not.
    Gambale is resting his pinky. He's anchored all the time (and using a thin pick....interesting)

    The guys who float (Oberg) are still anchoring at the forearm as does Clint strong who actually rests his wrist ABOVE the bridge.

    The rule is that there are no rules.
    That's one of the beauties of the instrument.

    Now let me think......did Wes anchor?

  23. #22

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    You guys should have told me all this 40 years ago when I was young, impressionable, and pliable.

  24. #23

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    Amen, ZigZag. I guess I would call myself a semi-floater. After 55 years playing I'm not going to change much with my right hand. What I do works for me.

    JM1021

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philco
    Gambale is resting his pinky. He's anchored all the time (and using a thin pick....interesting)
    @ 1:27.......now that's a thin pick!



  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by mja
    so what do the exclusive floating hand players do to achieve palm muting?
    you just put your palm down and do it. its no different.