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Hey all,
Just wondering if anybody has any (somewhat) proven stretch or exercise techniques for my new and growing hand and forearm fatigue. I have started to also notice a tad of tightness and discomfort in those areas as well mostly in the soft of my elbow and between my ring and pinky finger joint. I play around 12-14 hours a week and have been for quite some time. I am beginning to notice these symptoms 30 mins or so into my routine. I know that there is plenty of information available online, but I figured I would direct my question here seeing as how I do not assemble, or type for a living.
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10-24-2011 11:25 PM
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I think one of the best things you could do with any stretching is to be fully aware of how much tension you are using. It doesn't require much force to get a good stretch going.
I have seen some players putting max tension on their hands and bodys only to bitch about being sore and in pain later. I had to stop playing for a year because I ended up getting a bad case of Tendinitis because of crap like this. I would stretch too much on or away from the guitar and I started to hyper extend, thinking this was a good thing.
You can try some of these stretches:
Open and closing of the fists
rotating your wrists (be careful with this one. Only rotate as much as is comfortable. If you don't seem to have good range of motion, don't try and go harder.)
Pressing your hands together, in a prayer position, and pushing into one hand, then the other. You should do that pretty lightly too.
When I warm up on the instrument, I do things extremely slow. I will play chords and 1234 exercises for 20 minutes or so. I usually put the guitar down for 10 minutes after I am warmed up.
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Check your posture. You may be straining muscles. Keeping everything relaxed is the best remedy. Yoga is well worth investigating--and maybe even take a few classes. Well worth the $$, at least for me. If you're experiencing pain, stop playing or you'll regret it.
Originally Posted by Newport
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I definitely say check posture...I'm not a doctor, but I've had three students now who had pains in their arms that real doctors have traced back to their spine...once they straightened up, the pain significantly diminished.
I'd also suggest a warm up routine on the guitar...stretches and stuff are okay, but it's easy to injure the hand more than help it. Simply running through some chromatic exercises with good clean technique at a gradually increasing speed can work wonders.
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Also check your thumb position and the curve of your wrist. Pull out a classical guitar book and note how they show how to place your thumb and look at the curve of the wrist. Basically the thumb over the top of the neck will kink up your wrist and tendons whereas a thumb at the middle of the back of the neck will let the tendons be in a relaxed position.
Perhaps this could be the problem?
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May well be. I have been playing for almost 20 years though and it has not been a problem until recently. I have heard that yoga can be somewhat beneficial. I forgot to mention also that my hands fall asleep almost nightly while sleeping, but have been doing so longer than the fatigue and discomfort. I am beginning to worry about carpal tunnel to be honest... Only 30 years old though. Was hoping that I could curve it at this point seeing as how the fatigue and discomfort has just started. No way in the world I could put down my archtop for more than two days Originally Posted by fep
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Start wearing a brace on your (each) wrist/arm when you go to bed. You can get them at the drug store for around $10. "Ace" bandage with metal splint were the ones that cured me. You won't believe the difference when you get up next morning. After that, you need to check posture when you play, making sure everything is relaxed with no straining. Take frequent breaks, etc. Don't play if you have pain. Originally Posted by Newport
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Thanks a lot for the advice. I wouldn't exactly call it "pain" but definitely discomfort. I am going to get out and pick those up braces up tomorrow. Any chance chronically cracking my knuckles may also be a factor? Originally Posted by whatswisdom
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I've heard it's not good to do that. Best quit to be on the safe side. Best of luck and let me know how you do with the Ace. Originally Posted by Newport
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If you're already feeling pain/discomfort, then "exercises" are the last thing you should be doing! If you have a sore muscle, you don't go to the gym and train it even harder...you'd just be doing more damage.
You should probably focus on stretching and minimizing your use of that arm for at least a few weeks. Perhaps later you can look into doing some exercises.
If you instead do the typical manly thing of trying to 'exercise' that arm now while you symptomatic, you will end up like I did when I did the exact same thing: barely able to play guitar for about a year. Is that what you want???
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Sorry but by "exercises" I meant like more of a routine like stretches, areas to apply pressure, ect. A "rehab" of sorts. I wouldn't lift weights if I was feeling great, much less strained
good call though for anyone out there who would think that would be a good idea. I've decided to lay off the box for a week. Sux to because I have a Swart AST Pro arriving tomorrow... Maybe a little noodling wouldn't hurt if in a small dose.
Originally Posted by coolvinny
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Yeah I know, but I never heard about any conclusive results on it actually being bad. Set me apart in elementary school Originally Posted by whatswisdom
I picked up the brace today, I will post results tomorrow. Thanks again for the advise.
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Tomorrow? Originally Posted by Newport
Muscles repair quickly. Tendons? Very very very very very slowly. Most guitar RSI injuries are tendons, not muscles, so odds are you have overcooked your tendons. One day is not going to make a difference. But do use the brace - I wore one for about a year and only stopped about two months ago.
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He didn't mention anything about tendons. I think if it were tendons he would be shouting a lot louder. From his description it seems that he has muscular strains from incorrect posture and/or overuse. Wearing a brace--especially overnight--will provide relief in a short period of time. This is just my 2 cents based on a similar problem a few years ago. I still have the brace stashed away like gold. Best few bucks I ever spent... Originally Posted by coolvinny
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Thanks guys! To be honest, I've laid off playing the past couple of nights, been wearing the brace, and I am feeling alot better. Pretty sure it was just muscle strains from over use. Hands still fall asleep at night tho...
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Sounds like classic carpal tunnel symptoms. I had these symptoms 20 years ago when I was in music school, and when I stopped playing guitar after changing careers, the pain went away. When I started playing daily a few years ago, the pain returned. I started wearing the braces at night, which helped, but the problem did get worse with the more I played. Playing chord melodies seemed to cause me the most pain. Ironically, I just had the carpal tunnel release surgery yesterday (left hand), and it was the probably the best thing I could have done. I normally wake up with numb hands in the morning, even when I wear the braces, but this morning, no numbness at all ! The jury is still out on how this will improve my playing (I should be able to play again in 2 weeks) - but I am very optimistic based on the initial results. Originally Posted by Newport
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Originally Posted by Newport
I had similar problems that were cause by holding the pick too tightly. Try loosening up on the pick.
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If you think about the goal of practise playing in professional or semi-pro situation, how often do you play constantly solo for more then say 10 minutes on stage with pretty much no break in between?
When practising I don't play for more than 10 to 15 minutes, it doesn't matter if it doesn't hurt I stop for a couple of minutes and do exercises for the plucking hand like tapping F# all over the fretboard on all strings to a metronome. This gives my fretting hand a rest, I learn the fretboard and it's practise for tapping not just for the sake of tapping on its own (otherwise slight waste of time in my opinion). So that's 3 in 1!
Playing for no more than say 20 minutes in one go with a 2-5 minute break inbetween and you could do 40 hours week, and have a strong hand able to deal with more than 30 minutes in one go to boot.
As with exercise when playing it's more important to stretch before you play than after but don't let that stop you stretching after as well because that will alleviate tension built up. A stretch I do: Hold your arm out in front of you straight with your hand up (as though you are directing traffic to stop), use your other hand to pull your hand back. If you do the same thing with straight arm but the hand you are stretching pointing downward and you pulling it back toward you then that's easier to stretch the Ulner nerve which is the one for the pinky and ring finger that you are having problems with (and quite common).
Another one for general forearm (good for Bassists) is you hold your arm like the spout of a teapot, here's a pic I found from google image "teapotting" (some kind of craze at the moment)...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ORdXf-kS5Y...ting+Moron.jpg
but the palm of your hand must be facing skyward not down. Then I stretch my arm out with the hand staying the same angle so I end up with a straight arm and hand pointing downward with my palm facing outward (or arm almost straight with hand facing less skyward if you can't stretch that far). I do this often and if I'm walking somewhere and my arms are free (I might as well there's not much you can do with your other arm).
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Another one that I do sometimes when my hands are a bit stiff from playing the day before is to fill the sink with hot water and immerse both hands in it and open and close them slowly. Do it as hot as you can stand and for a good few minutes. Then once they are fully dry you can start your exercises slowly at first as previously mentioned do the 1234 etc....
Sometimes if I think I have done too much is take a couple of paracetemol to take the inflammation out of the muscles and tendons. Its an old cyclists trick to calm down sore knees after a long run.
Works for me
I find the worst thing I get is that the muscle between my thumb and index finger gets pretty strained, so I massage it every so often. I find that if I try control the pressure I put on the neck, its does'nt get so bad. I tend to use too much pressure holding down the chords if I dont focus on what I'm doing.
I think a lot of guitarist fall into this trap.
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A better variation is to do so-called 'contrast baths' where you alternate hot (mostly) with short periods of cold water. I bought plastic containers for this purpose. This helped me get over my wrist tendon issues. Originally Posted by Hugh
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I definitely feel for any musician experiencing physical problems that prohibit their ability to play their instrument.7 or so years ago i couldnt play guitar anymore.Both of my arms were completely out of action from the heavy job i was working at.Swelling in the muscles,pain,numbness,i didnt know if i would play again.What helped was that i had intensive deep massage therapy,obviously i stopped my job,and lots of stretching the muscles back out.It took maybe 6 months before i could play with anyone again,but then maybe another 12-18 months of building up the stamina to last a 2-3 hour gig.I still am dealing with this problem now,but its nothing like it was when i was left handicapped by my occupation.Here is a link to a great website that helped me find out what was going on with my body,it helped to ease the thought of what i was going through.
Carpal Tunnel Treatment Solution - Therapy for Repetitive Strain Injuries, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, Trigger Finger, Hand/Wrist Pain and Numbness.
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Everybody, study the anatomy of the hand and arm, please. It will teach you more about what you are and aren't doing right than anything else. The way the bones, muscles and tendons work together is quite miraculous, and most of us don't know the mechanism, thus, fight it all too often. We play the guitar with most of our body, actually, and we need to learn how the body is assembled and what is the right way to stand and move, based on how the body is designed.
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I've been going to rehab for a hand strain on my fretting hand for a couple of weeks, and am finally seeing some results. No carpal tunnel, just strained. It gradually got worse and rest didn't seem to help. I finally went to the Dr.
I'd definitely recommend going to see a good orthopaedist, and maybe a specialist who works with musicians if you can find one. It's a pretty risky trying to diagnose and treat medical problems yourself if you're not a specialist. You don't want things to get more chronic/permanent.
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