The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Anybody got any speed building drills that they have actually done themselves, and found that it helped build their speed? I feel like there are hundreds of them online, but I don't know which ones actually work, and which ones are a waste of time.

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  3. #2

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    https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...exercises.html

    Since my last post on that thread in April, I've become WAY faster (no live clips to prove it yet). I consider myself "fast enough" now. Kojo improved a ton too. Try out the info. Reg had good videos posted there too. Dig in!!
    Last edited by JonnyPac; 08-31-2011 at 05:33 PM.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    Coffee. Lots of it.
    Being constantly pissed off helps too. Ever hear hardcore guitarists?
    David
    LOL

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by JazzFanatik
    Anybody got any speed building drills that they have actually done themselves, and found that it helped build their speed? I feel like there are hundreds of them online, but I don't know which ones actually work, and which ones are a waste of time.
    All of them work if you believe in them, and if you practice them very slowly into perfection until they become your second nature.

  6. #5

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    There is an upper limit on runs and tempo as far as what I like to hear. I never practice things I don't like the sound of or want in my toolbox. I'll leave metal shredding for the kids.

    I'm big into Miles. 'Nuff said!

  7. #6

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    I just practice a whole lot of chromatic finger patterns with alternate picking. I then play all of the pentatonic scale inversions for a key + blues scales, making sure to mix in economy picking when needed. Then I move on to scales and modes and whatnot. Once I play the scale flawlessly (several times) for a certain tempo, I make it a bit faster and so on. I'm not sure about jazz exercises to help with speed for improv, but playing a lot of neo-classical metal and technical death-metal will make you a speed demon


  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Astronomer
    I just practice a whole lot of chromatic finger patterns with alternate picking. I then play all of the pentatonic scale inversions for a key + blues scales, making sure to mix in economy picking when needed. Then I move on to scales and modes and whatnot. Once I play the scale flawlessly (several times) for a certain tempo, I make it a bit faster and so on. I'm not sure about jazz exercises to help with speed for improv, but playing a lot of neo-classical metal and technical death-metal will make you a speed demon

    I don't even like shred, but that was pretty cool. Its tragic what happened to him.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by JazzFanatik
    Anybody got any speed building drills that they have actually done themselves, and found that it helped build their speed? I feel like there are hundreds of them online, but I don't know which ones actually work, and which ones are a waste of time.
    Everybody is different. I am sure that they all have value. Trial and error will be your best guide. I will say this. Practice every fingering possible. Some positions lend themselves to speed, but the more awkward ones are of great value for dexterity. A by product is being able to easily see clusters that less proficient players miss. Everything has value. Cross training minimize's wasted time. Technique is everything. If it sounds like dog crap at moderate tempos you can bet it will sound 10 times worse at faster tempos. IMHO

  10. #9
    Thanks everyone! And just to clarify, I am not trying to ONLY play fast, or become a shreddar, but I DO think that it's nice to have the ability to play fast at times and in certain contexts, but not ALL the time...

    Honestly, I'd rather listen to BB King's slow and meaningful licks then someone shredding at 100 miles per hour, and I can't even hear what he's doing.

    However, I also love to hear a jazz or blues tune where they are groovin the whole tune, but one or two parts they throw a fast lick in there, I personally think it's cool...so i dunno maybe i need to get a metronome to help...

    Sounds like practicing slow licks and gradually speeding them up is a good way to do this.

  11. #10

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    I'm from the other side... When I play slower tempo things I play slow. Slow tempo playing, fingerings, feel etc... usually doesn't simply go faster... there different, from fingerings to picking, feel etc... Sometimes we say play slow and really mean... know what your playing.
    I would much rather be able to play a fast bop head at tempo and not quite technically have it right, but stay in tempo than play that same head at some slow tempo and have it technically perfect at that slow tempo. I know the technique will come... the fast tempos don't always show up. Obviously you need to practice all tempos... but I know many guitarist who have great slow technique and are still looking for up tempo technique. To me it's another one of those guitar myths... Reg

  12. #11

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    I don't like guys that play faster than they can think. There's already too many of them.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by JazzFanatik
    maybe i need to get a metronome to help...

    Sounds like practicing slow licks and gradually speeding them up is a good way to do this.
    Yeah, that's a must.


  14. #13

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    This is one topic which I have quite strong beliefs about. How often do you see a sax player with good technique and speed (Coltrane) written off as a shredder? Yet as soon a a guitarist does one fast line, even if it is only the one all set I have seen players written off by others. I think 'shredders' and metal guitarists have made people associate playing fast with shredding.
    I believe developing good technique and speed is a very important skill for all players even if you never use this speed on stage (If you can practice something significantly faster than you need to play it it can open up more room when you actually perform it as you are essentially playing at half speed technique is not an issue and you can have far more expression in your playing. That being said, using this speed on stage is not a bad thing if used appropriately. Remember that speed is not necessarily used for melodic content in a solo but harmonic and rhythmic texture as well as dynamics.

    I find working on speed is common sense and dedication. If you want to work on a particular technique find or make up an exercise which uses this technique and sit down with a metronome until you can do it.

  15. #14

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    tons and tons of practice.

    as far as drills go
    first drill: First just go through a basic strait forward picking patter
    first finger first fret then second finger second fret then third finger third fret then forth finger forth fret. do that as fast as you can on the sixth string then the fifth forth third second and first the the second then the third then the forth then the fifth then the sixth again. then slide your first finger down one fret and repeat the process. Keep sliding it down to the point of where you are confortable then back work your way back to the first fret. Once you get comfortable with that drill you can change the order in which you play the frets. For instance instead of 1 2 3 4 your could make it 1 3 2 4 or 1 4 2 3 or what ever you want that is a great drill for increasing finger speed.

    Second drill: Be sure you can pick both up and down o try drills so play a set of 4 notes then mix and match which ones you strum up and which ones you strum down.

    Constantly repeating those drills will increase your hand, picking, and your finger speed.

  16. #15

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    Here's an observation on superficial listening.

    Anyone can hear a fast passage and make a correct assumption that it was fairly difficult. Bingo.

    Now...

    It takes a trained listener to hear a difficult or unusual chord progression. Giant Steps changes played as a ballad are very demanding as far as theory goes. And a "stretchy voicing" does not sound any harder than any other form. Hearing harmonic, melodic, and rhythmic complexity is something that takes a bit of work; the rewards are great and nothing is lost, only gained. To someone not counting measures (just feeling ONE ONE ONE ONE to infinity..., 4/4 and 7/4 are seem just as simple. It takes skill to hear the good stuff. Don't let the obvious "playing fast" be the focus of musical merit.

  17. #16

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    Any of you guys experience tension in your picking arm when attempting faster runs? I've been wrestling with this for a while and can't seem to shake it! I guess I just need to keep it slow and steady for now.

  18. #17

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    I agree with rich completely. Why does playing slow somehow equal passion or soul?

    I think its important to appreciate fast and slow, loud and soft.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richb
    The only listeners who bleat about "too fast" or "shredding" in decent jazz, are mostly people who have no ears and only listen to the surface of the music...Nothing more pathetic than the old "yeah but does he "hear" all that stuff he/she is playing"....of course a decent musician hears it, what is actually meant by "he can't hear at that speed" is "I cant hear at that speed"
    I remember reading about the great sax player Johnny Griffin was accused of playing too fast in his day, reviewers saying things like his playing stops at the wrists, or sounds like cockroaches running up and down the keys. Shame, people bought into that and he was kinda shunned by a lot of listeners because of it. Of course the great players knew he was a monster who knew all the things all the greats did, but could do it faster.

    My point is that not all players who like to play fast should not be tagged as mindless shredders. If you can't hear as fast as they can, then you really can't critique their choices. You can only say if you like to listen to it or not, and that is not a critique as such...

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conman
    tons and tons of practice.

    as far as drills go
    first drill: First just go through a basic strait forward picking patter
    first finger first fret then second finger second fret then third finger third fret then forth finger forth fret. do that as fast as you can on the sixth string then the fifth forth third second and first the the second then the third then the forth then the fifth then the sixth again. then slide your first finger down one fret and repeat the process. Keep sliding it down to the point of where you are confortable then back work your way back to the first fret. Once you get comfortable with that drill you can change the order in which you play the frets. For instance instead of 1 2 3 4 your could make it 1 3 2 4 or 1 4 2 3 or what ever you want that is a great drill for increasing finger speed.

    Second drill: Be sure you can pick both up and down o try drills so play a set of 4 notes then mix and match which ones you strum up and which ones you strum down.

    Constantly repeating those drills will increase your hand, picking, and your finger speed.


    Funny to be reading this. I just got done spending a 1/2 hour of solid steady practice of just those idea,s and many more. It is also a great warm up. I agree with this 100%. It opens up many doors by gaining the dexterity and technique to do this at speed. By doing it effortlessly at speed goes hand in hand with phrasing the way I like to.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyPac
    Here's an observation on superficial listening.

    Anyone can hear a fast passage and make a correct assumption that it was fairly difficult. Bingo.

    Now...

    It takes a trained listener to hear a difficult or unusual chord progression. Giant Steps changes played as a ballad are very demanding as far as theory goes. And a "stretchy voicing" does not sound any harder than any other form. Hearing harmonic, melodic, and rhythmic complexity is something that takes a bit of work; the rewards are great and nothing is lost, only gained. To someone not counting measures (just feeling ONE ONE ONE ONE to infinity..., 4/4 and 7/4 are seem just as simple. It takes skill to hear the good stuff. Don't let the obvious "playing fast" be the focus of musical merit.


    Agreed. The ears are the key to the hands in the end.

    Playing fast, slow, soft or hard etc...Are all part of the required dynamics to speak our language and hold a conversation. I think the players, to fast to slow etc..., that give this a bad name are the ones who have nothing to say because they don't know the language. When this occurs, it is because they tend to solely rely on things like speed or straight scales or the same old patterns played the same way, that did not even sound that good the first time round.
    It's like a bad sale's line designed to get you into the door. It's called a gimmick. Gimmick's are one dimensional and trite. So are they players that rely solely on them. IMHO
    Last edited by brwnhornet59; 09-02-2011 at 11:29 AM.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScatterLogic
    Right, we're all sub-par. We can't hear JG. He's so far above us. God just give up?

    Of course we don't give up playing, why are you being ridiculous? Maybe just give up critiquing things you don't fully understand on a Jazz forum. Would you say Benson is too flashy and has no substance because he likes to play fast? You probably wouldn't dare to, or would you?

    As for the shredders who say nothing, it's kinda like watching someone masturbating.... (not that I've ever done that! er, watching someone else I mean)....

  23. #22

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    As for the shredders who say nothing, it's kinda like watching someone masturbating.... (not that I've ever done that! er, watching someone else I mean)....

    Oh my!!!


  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScatterLogic
    Wow, quite an observation. So if I object to endless and tireless solo runs that run into homogenization it's because I have no ears, and I'm incapable of comprehending the deeper meaning beneath the surface?

    Hmmm....might it be that I do hear all of it and I just don't dig it? Like possibly I'd like something in the order of passion? Soul? You know, space...dynamics?

    Just sayin'
    For the love of God, I do NOT want to start a bicker-fest here. But someone should point out that Rich *did* say "...in DECENT jazz..." (my emphasis). Then again, "....of course a DECENT musician hears it..." (what he's playing) -- thus the observation that people who make that telling remark ("Yeah, but can he hear what he's playing?") are probably saying, "I can't hear that; I can't even think that fast."

    A player with good ears simply is not going to listen to, say, Larry Coryell, and question whether he's hearing what he's playing. It's obvious he's hearing it. Coryell is a "decent" player, to say the least. Heck, he's a great player.

    Thing is, one needs good ears to discern *when* a player is merely stringing together hot-licks, and when he's imagining and bringing into being a musical composition, off the cuff. To be able to do know this takes hard work -- a thing most of us shun, of course.

    Just my opinion.

    kj

  25. #24

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    Sure, some players overdrive their headlights, as it were, but many (and most good jazzers) have a handle on their content. They hear it. If it were exclusively (meaningless) scales being run without variation or sweeping arpeggios it wouldn't ever be considered "jazz" and few of us would even know about it to begin with.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzpunk
    Any of you guys experience tension in your picking arm when attempting faster runs? I've been wrestling with this for a while and can't seem to shake it! I guess I just need to keep it slow and steady for now.
    You know, Jazzpunk, during the past several months, since JonnyPac helped open my eyes to some "speed truths" I hadn't considered, I've wood-shedded and have, I think, hit upon some good stuff regarding tension and ridding oneself of it, to play better, faster, etc.

    This might sound insane, but bear with me.

    Get your guitar and pick and sit down. Now start imagining that all the muscles and nerves of your entire upper body are turning off. Go limp. Act as if you're dog-drunk, or are falling asleep -- and just fall forward over your guitar, letting your hands, wrists, arms, shoulders turn to pure rubber and even dangle. No tension. Zero.

    Now, still pretending you're drunk or half asleep, sit back up and make a wide, tension-free picking motion at one of the strings. You can bearly sit up. Try again. Keep going till you can pick a string in this condition. Your pick grip should be so loose, you just might drop the thing. That's okay - just pick it back up. Keep a mental reading of the tension (or the lack of it!) in your upper body. Now, let yourself pick down and up on one string. Pick as lightly as is humanly possible. This is crucial. Do this several times, not concerning yourself with strict timing or tone -- nothing but being free of tension while sort of picking.

    Gradually (still monitoring yourself for zero tension) pick faster (60 bmp, 1 note per click maybe, but don't use a metronome), and hold your pick as if it could fall to the floor -- and you should aim to make it feel as if you are simply "brushing" the string with the pick. Do NOT try to play with any loudness at all. That will come easily, soon enough.

    Are you picking with no tension now? You should be. If not, back up, start over. If so, keep going. Make the pick movement SUPER TINY. Brush up, brush down. Quiet, soft, so loose in your hands and arms and shoulders you still look drunk, or as if you're falling asleep.

    Only increase speed when you can do so without bringing any tension to any of your muscles. Now, you'll be VERY SURPRISED how little time it takes to turn this "drunken picking" into tension-free tremolo-speed picking. Just make it quiet, soft, no concern with volume or tone.

    Do this a lot. Before you know it, you'll be able to tighten up on the pick just a bit, and BAM, there's your volume and tone, with the speed. But if tension creeps in, back off.

    Let me know if this works. It's lately done wonders for me. I am tension-less now, and I used to tense up really bad.

    kj