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I think I'm getting it.
I was going off an old post when I made my comment about holding the pick...my thumb is bent backward, but my wrist is "dropped" so the thumb is more parallel to the strings as opposed to pointing upwards.
So in other words, who knows what the hell I'm doing?
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05-16-2011 04:52 PM
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I tried a bit. It was clunky... Honestly, I love the tone of the Wes style thumb... I wish that style was as fast as my standard picking!
I guess I am just more aware of how angle changes articulation and tone... I adjust to taste now. Feels ok.
I've come to the point where my picking is about as fast as I can think and hear... If I push it, my playing is like "over-driving my headlights" while driving at night. It content feels contrived and BS-tty. I realize I play kinda slow and melodic because it comes out that way via my feedback loop of creative/learned content.
This Hal Galper lesson really makes sense to me with problems like picking.
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I read somewhere that Benson uses a Fender medium pick. What do you guys use for the Benson approach? Is a more pliable pick part of the key to making work?
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I'm 100% Dunlop Jazz III Ultex... Can't use the standard meds.
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I tried the Benson thing and it felt like I was picking with a shovel....just ain't gonna happen.
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Right. At least, right about Benson picking. (I don't know what "closed wrist playing" means.) Another reason I've decided against Benson picking is that it complicates muting.
Originally Posted by jzucker
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Rogers manages to do it, so do a ton of R&B players I know. In fact, muting isn't a problem with benson picking as long as you're aware of it when developing the technique. Originally Posted by Richb
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This is a good point. It's all a balance of course, but somebody could spend a few years worrying about pick grips when those years could have been spent working on hearing and conception. Originally Posted by Richb
Keep in mind this is coming from a guy (me) who has spent faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar too much time thinking, reading, and practicing different pick grips, angles, techniques etc.
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Who cares?!? Rogers was first call for Chris Potter and Mike Brecker. Isn't that the true measure of greatness? Not someone studying a youtube clip in a chat forum? Originally Posted by Richb
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I doubt he's losing sleep over it. He's too busy teaching and gigging. You don't see him posting on jazz guitar forums! Originally Posted by Richb
But the point is that it's possible to play with the right edge of the pick, thumb pointing up, from the wrist and to mute at the same time. I've seen lots of local R&B guys do it. How do you think all those muted guitar parts were played by the R&b cats?, many of whom (inadvertently) were using benson picking?
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hah zing!!! Originally Posted by jzucker
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Can someone here please give me a good, concise explanation of the "benson picking" movement and such? I've read Tuck's article, but damn if it doesn't click for me.
I use benson style grip and my downstrokes are almost always rest strokes, but I really don't have any idea what the difference 'tween standard picking and Benson picking is.
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Can't I pay that guy to just.....go away? Originally Posted by Richb
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I switched to the Benson way about a year ago. Probably took me a couple of months to get really comfortable. I remember getting some weird shoulder pain that I'd never had before but that went away. I haven't been playing with much in the way of gain but when I do, I haven't had much of a problem with muting.
The only thing that still feels a bit weird is if I'm really nailing a funk rhythm, like just really going to town on a James Brown 9th chord, I'm tending to choke up on the point so much to the point that it's almost all finger contact on the strings, but that may be a function of my using these picks (D'Andrea Pro-Plec small pointed teardrops - yes, they do make you sound like Adam Rogers!)
After the initial trial period, I decided to stick with it, as I just love the tone I'm getting and the fact that I can get a darker tone by angling the pick more, without rolling off more treble, and likewise I can straighten the pick out to brighten the sound up. Lots of control, the notes have a nice pop to them without being annoying ( I'm definitely not going for a benson tone) - very happy I changed.
Oh, and if anyone is wondering, you can always go back to your old way. I have to fumble for a second with the initial grip but I can play with the traditional grip right now with no problems or having to practice both to maintain the ability.
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look up benson, rodney jones or Dan Wilson Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun
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Shadow-
I started this thread a few weeks ago and got some good answers and links to videos/ images that cleared it up for me...
https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getti...-question.html
I've been trying it since I started this thread.....I think. Not sure if I'm doing it 'right' but I saw an immediate difference in tone and could play things I knew noticeably faster, and smoother, whatever it is I'm doing. Been playing rhythm for years but just started seriously trying to play lead in other styles, which is what got me started trying to play jazz, so I'm sort of blank slate where right hand technique is concerned. Figured I'd attempt to train myself from the start so I don't have to relearn anything...... It was awkward for a few days, but feels pretty natural now. I like it.
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I had a look at the Rodney Jones vid...
That's just how I naturally pick, probably because I didn't have a teacher. Sometimes I'll change my grip up and hold my wrist above the strings, but I'll still be using the Benson grip and the oscillation style movement.
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I think thats Jacks point. Originally Posted by Richb
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what I don't get is how earlier in another thread RichB points out that he thinks nobody swings who plays from the elbow but in this thread suggests that changing your pick technique makes little difference .
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That's how I do it, took me a bout a year to get it feeling good and thankfully it is now!
Soory, I don't know why the pics come out sideways!
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This is one of the best videos (camera work and beautiful playing) that I've seen to try and figure it out....
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Ah! By looking at that, I can see I hold the pick the same way, but he angles the pick with the end facing the bridge DOWN towards the ground. This means on his downstrokes, he uses the back part of the pick, making it slide easier across the strings! However, on the upstrokes, you get more friction, as it is on the front edge. Surprisingly, it SEEMS it would give you a darker and smoother attack, but trying it, it seems to make the notes have a sharper attack. He appears in that video to have a bit of a double jointed thumb which may make picking like that easier for him. Originally Posted by 23skidoo
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Originally Posted by Billnc
Bill,
Giuliani -- Jeff Troxel (National Flatpicking Champion, 2007, I think), and Berklee grad, has an absolutely GREAT little book w/CD called _Right Hand Workout_. This thing is the bomb. He takes you through baby steps, but progresses fairly quickly from all downstrokes to several of the Giuliani studies, arranged for pick-style guitar. He recommends doing at least one or two of these every day for the rest of your life. He does them religiously, and boy, it shows. This book is published by FGM Publications: Flatpicking Guitar Magazine -- click on "Mercantile" and that should lead you to it. I think it's only about $19.99, and it'll really pay you back, with a bit of practice.
I have some other cool and super-beneficial classical pieces (public domain) for pick-style; if you want, I can scan and email you a couple of the better ones. kojo.27 [AT] gmail.com < Notice the "." between "kojo" and "27" >....
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This sounds like a great hook for a jazz-blues song, doesn't it? ;-).... Originally Posted by Richb
I have been experimenting with both "thumb up" and "thumb down" picking since this thread started, and am devoting the next 1-2 weeks strictly to Benson-style "thumbs up" picking. I was already working on playing from the elbow (based on Jimmy Bruno's picking video), so this fits into the bigger program. In general I'm liking the results; I hear a difference in tone between "thumb up" and "thumb down" but the pick angle in either direction seems to make more of a difference.
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I (barely) remember reading circa 1977 that Al Dimeola developed his picking technique by being ignorant of the fact that you have to use your fingers to Travis pick! He just didn't realise that it was not done without a pick, so he WORKED at it till he could do it. Sometimes something is accepted as impossible - untill some wise ass DOES it and lays a huge burden on everyone else! I think it was while he was attending Berklee, getting pretty poor grades because he wasn't going to classes but in his dorm practicing.
Last edited by whiskey02; 05-25-2011 at 09:43 AM.
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