Sitting Playing Position

[Extrapolation]

Hey everyone, I've been playing for a few years so not exactly a beginner but thought this would the most appropriate forum for my questions (also I'm essentially going back to square one in my technique, so I suppose I am a beginner, again).

Anyway after a long bout with tendonitis my orthopedist gave me the okay to start practicing again. Aside from some warm-up exercises, (quarter notes at 40BPM; picking, legato, sweeping - 10 minutes each), to build up muscle memory, I'm going to be working out of Peter Sprague's Method book as well as Andrew Green's Jazz Guitar Technique (got the Comping and Structures books as well, but those are further down the line). Other than than it will be learning tunes, improvising, messing around, etc. The practice sessions will be in increments of 30-45 minutes with time inbetween to stretch, ice, etc.

Now my questions have to do with playing position while practicing. I am mainly going to be practicing with my acoustic, mostly because of the higher action, heavier strings, and it being generally more difficult to play due to the width of the body. I play right-handed, and got a footrest to help with the positioning, which has been great. After going back and forth between resting the guitar on either my right or left leg, I decided to practice classical style since it made it a bit easier to keep my fingers arched/always be on the tips and play higher up the neck without feeling contorted (although I think with my electric I'm going to play with it resting on my right leg). The problem I am having is with muscle cramping; the lower-right side of my back gets cramped pretty quickly and my left glute muscle starts to cramp up after a while. Now I stretch my entire body before playing and stretch regularly since I bike quite often as well as exercise, so it seems stretching is not the issue.

Can anyone provide some advice on positioning to avoid cramping or just general tips on positioning? Opinions on resting the guitar on the right vs. left leg? Any and all help is appreciated, sorry for the long post. Thanks very much,

-Alejandro

[gravitas]

I ran into some trouble with this last year because I'd been standing at awkward positions on the gig for too long. My back had some chronic pain that needed to be rectified, so I necessarily had to develop some insight into proper posture.

It starts with your left hand. For the left hand, just let it drop on your lap and allow all tension to leave it. It should lie palm facing up with your fingers curled slightly, and no angle in the wrist. When you hold the neck, it should fall into your hand exactly as it is in that position (with the thumb pointing towards the headstock and resting in roughly the middle of the back of the neck).

Your sitting posture should facilitate this hand position. Whether you play classically or not, if your posture is affecting your wrist's angle, you've gotta make a change. Ideally, your back will be stock straight and your shoulders will hang loosely at your sides. For the guitar itself, if you're playing classically you can get a guitar rest to lay on your knee and bring the body up a bit (a little particle board contraption that'll allow you to ditch the footstool and still elevate the angle of the neck so it rests comfortably in your hand). Another compromise is to tighten your strap so the guitar doesn't hang so loosely, but rather falls directly into your open hand. Check out Jimmy Bruno in this picture: The Jimmy Bruno Guitar Institute - Modern Guitarist
or Lage Lund: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/...b106094472.jpg or even Julian Lage here: http://www.healdsburgjazzfestival.or...ulian_lage.jpg . I know all of those pictures are of standing guitarists, but the point is the posture doesn't have to change when you're sitting because the guitar is elevated away from your knees because of the strap. In other words, there's literally no difference between how you play when sitting vs. when standing.

At the end of the day, what you're trying to do is avoid any tension when sitting still. If you feel no tension, you're good. If you feel tension, work to rectify it.

Hope that helps

Al

[Extrapolation]

^All right thanks very much for the advice. I don't use a strap when playing acoustic (only electric, and the strap is pretty high though still rests on my leg). Now about the thumb position I normally keep my thumb around them middle of the neck although it is pointing upward, not left towards the headstock, as that is where it feels most natural. I'll start using a strap on the acoustic so that there will be little to no difference when standing or sitting. I suppose resting it on my left leg would be closer to standing position than the right. Thanks again.

[MaxPicks]

Try using a lap strap. Make Your Guitar More Ergonomic with The Lap-Strap I use it always with any guitar after a very nasty bout of muscle spasms.

Your sitting position sh be the same as for all instruments - both feet flat on the floor, back straight, not hunched over. The palm of your fretting hand sh be in line with the fingerboard without strain.

[Extrapolation]

Thanks, does that require any extra installation on the guitar or anything? Also would simply using a strap with the acoustic and setting it high have essentially the same effect? Is a footrest not recommended because of potential back problems/why should both feet always be flat on the floor? Before I got the footrest I would always end up crossing my legs to raise the guitar a bit.

[MaxPicks]

No, just use the strap button on the base. Using a regular strap I cannot get anywhere near the same ergonomic nicety. Don't cross yr legs, puts majot strain oin the back. Look at pics of violinists or trumpeters - the ergonomics are all the same.

[Extrapolation]

All right thanks very much I'll try it out.

[Sharks]

I too am struggling with tendonitis in the wrist of my fretting hand. I also can't play sitting with a strap for any great period of time because of shoulder tension.

I agree with not using a foot stool. It throws your back out of alignment because of the assymetry of your hips.

In addition to the 'lap strap' (this is great, thanks MaxPicks) and other advice already mentioned, I would suggest you get used to engaging your core whilst you sit (pull your belly-button in to your spine), and maybe do some hip flexor stretches. If you're sitting for any long period of time and making changes to your sitting posture, core strength and relaxed hip flexors will make a world of difference and give you a good foundation to sitting better and longer.

[oldane]

Archtops have a lot of the lower frequencies coming from the back of the instrument. Close contact between the guitar back and your belly will dampen a part of the tone. Many guitarists have the guitar placed at a more or less flat position on their lap to allow the back to vibrate freely. Check out pictures of Freddie Green or wes Montgomery (less pronounced than Green). So that is - soundwise - the best position (unless of course you deliberately want to "tame" an overly boomy instrument). But of course compromizes must be made if that position inhibits the playability of the instrument for a particular player or worse, causes problems like tendinitis or back pain.

[bass2man]

I started getting a pain in my lower back/right side when I started playing..this was due to me trying to "hold" the guitar with my right arm while playing...

Like others have said, I started to play with a strap, even when sitting and it went away...I always use a strap now but place the strap comfortably when I stand, then sit down..it should still hold your guitar...I dont want the guitar to feel different when I am standing vs sitting.

You may also find yourself trying to "peek" over the top of the fretboard to see what you are doing...this would put a strain on your lower right side I would think..I focus mostly on the top position markers..it does not take long to get used too.

Most of all..RELAX...no reason to tense up..its only playing guitar...

[SteveCarter]

Hey everyone, I've been playing for a few years so not exactly a beginner but thought this would the most appropriate forum for my questions (also I'm essentially going back to square one in my technique, so I suppose I am a beginner, again).

Anyway after a long bout with tendonitis my orthopedist gave me the okay to start practicing again. Aside from some warm-up exercises, (quarter notes at 40BPM; picking, legato, sweeping - 10 minutes each), to build up muscle memory, I'm going to be working out of Peter Sprague's Method book as well as Andrew Green's Jazz Guitar Technique (got the Comping and Structures books as well, but those are further down the line). Other than than it will be learning tunes, improvising, messing around, etc. The practice sessions will be in increments of 30-45 minutes with time inbetween to stretch, ice, etc.

Now my questions have to do with playing position while practicing. I am mainly going to be practicing with my acoustic, mostly because of the higher action, heavier strings, and it being generally more difficult to play due to the width of the body. I play right-handed, and got a footrest to help with the positioning, which has been great. After going back and forth between resting the guitar on either my right or left leg, I decided to practice classical style since it made it a bit easier to keep my fingers arched/always be on the tips and play higher up the neck without feeling contorted (although I think with my electric I'm going to play with it resting on my right leg). The problem I am having is with muscle cramping; the lower-right side of my back gets cramped pretty quickly and my left glute muscle starts to cramp up after a while. Now I stretch my entire body before playing and stretch regularly since I bike quite often as well as exercise, so it seems stretching is not the issue.

Can anyone provide some advice on positioning to avoid cramping or just general tips on positioning? Opinions on resting the guitar on the right vs. left leg? Any and all help is appreciated, sorry for the long post. Thanks very much,

-Alejandro

On my web site I have copies of a couple of the articles I wrote on this topic for Guitar Player magazine. Go to the Articles page of my site and click on Musicians Health Series. Also take a look at the Stretches article.

http://frogstoryrecords.com/

Steve
Steve

[max chill]

I usually sit in the most comfortable position, but I insert a rubber bladder in my hollowbody and fill it with helium and it almost floats above my legs.

[Extrapolation]

Thanks again to everyone for the advice.

Bass2man, I do that a lot, peeking over the board, and you're right it's best to get used to the top markers and the general feel of it.

Thanks very much for the articles Steve, I've read "Playing With Pain" although the "Body and Hand Position" article is tough to read as it's sometimes cut off/blurry due to the scanning. Would you possibly have another source for this one? Thanks again.

I'll start resting the guitar on my right leg with the strap and feel put that positioning, hopefully it won't out too much strain on the shoulder during long sessions.

[jaystrings]

It starts with your left hand. For the left hand, just let it drop on your lap and allow all tension to leave it. It should lie palm facing up with your fingers curled slightly, and no angle in the wrist. When you hold the neck, it should fall into your hand exactly as it is in that position (with the thumb pointing towards the headstock and resting in roughly the middle of the back of the neck).

Your sitting posture should facilitate this hand position. Whether you play classically or not, if your posture is affecting your wrist's angle, you've gotta make a change.

At the end of the day, what you're trying to do is avoid any tension when sitting still. If you feel no tension, you're good. If you feel tension, work to rectify it.

Well, it sure helped me. Thanks. Clearly stated & helpful.

Jay

[guitarbard]

I'm sitting most of the time,,fiddle, guitar, and still use a normal guitar strap to secure it, and hold it in one position.

[ronjazz]

Lots of well-meaning but uninformed advice. IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING BACK PAINS, CRAMPS, ETC., DON'T USE THE FOOTSTOOL. Check out the Alexander Technique, get a little book by Barbara Conable called "What Musicians need to know about the Body", GIA Pub. Playing in pain, which 75-80% of all music college performers do, is a recipe for a short career and lifelong problems.

Find a guitar that fits you. For example, if you are somewhat smaller than average, don't try playing a Super 400.

When you practice, make sure that there is no tension or strain in your legs, back, neck or shoulders. I tend to practice in different positions: footstool, no footstool, standing, sitting on a barstool, etc., mostly with a strap. This way I have a fairly constant position of the instrument, yet I can move around a bit, and avoid the tightness that often appears at the end of a long practice session.

As always, practice no faster than you can play the exercise or phrase perfectly, and repeat that perfection many times, so the brain will etch the movements into your map. Muscles have no memory; it's all in the brain.

Realize that we utilize the whole body when playing well. Take a few minutes to study some anatomy. Don't fight Mother Nature.

[m_d]

I went through similar questions some time ago. I wonder if your problem might come from resting the guitar on your left leg. I tried, and couldn't. I experienced cramping doing that too. I figured the reason was the different build of steel string guitars, in particular they have longer necks than classicals. But I'm fine resting the guitar on my right leg. My archtop is a 16'' and my semi a 14.5". For the semi I crank the footstool one notch higher. The footstool causes no problem whatsoever provided I rest the guitar on my right leg, and I have a sensitive back. I try to maintain good posture at all times and will get up and take a few steps often during a session.

I also considered a guitar seat, there's a great one made by a German company, I might consider it if I played a lot more, but the above arrangement works fine for now.

[guitarbard]

I never play the guitar but that it's strapped on. Due to lower back probe, I sit, mostly,,that is,,all the time, really. I sit when I play fiddle. Makes sense.