Keeping fingers close to fretboard

[Al_F]

I recently noticed my index & pinky fingers moving away from the fretboard as I play faster. I decided to stop playing scales at faster tempos and play them very slowly, keeping my fingers under control. Are there any other exercises I should look at to develop economy of motion?

Thanks.

[MarkRhodes]

I recently noticed my index & pinky fingers moving away from the fretboard as I play faster. I decided to stop playing scales at faster tempos and play them very slowly, keeping my fingers under control. Are there any other exercises I should look at to develop economy of motion?

One such exercise is to keep your fingers on the fretboard until you have to raise them to play another note. To take a simple example, on the low E string you could play F F# G G#. That's four notes in a row. But when you play the G# (-with your pinky) make sure your other three fingers are still on the guitar. You can repeat this on the A string, keeping three fingers on the low E while you fret the Bb with your index on the A string. You can find more complicated patterns but this one can get you started.

[Gramps]

It can be frustrating to fix this problem but the only way I know is to slow everything down and pay attention to; 1) how high you keep your fingers from the strings and; 2) how many movements you have to make with your left hand as shown in Markerhodes' post. His example of playing a chromatic phrase (assending or decending) is a good one. Do you want to press down the F note then lift it (2 movements for 1 note) or press it down then press down the F# (2 movements but 2 notes)? A better example is if the notes were decending. You won't want to press each note down just when you need it. You want to press them all down at the same time, then lift them one at a time. So the same 4 note phrase can have either 8 movements (each note pressed than released) or 4 movements (G#,G,F#,F pressed down at once then lifting your fingers for F#,G,G#)

I learned this concept when playing violin and it changed my guitar and mandolin playing too.

I have more trouble with the first issue than the second one now but am working on it.

[Al_F]

Mark - that's a good exercise, I'll add it in to my routine.

Gramps, no kidding about going slow! I was working on it last night. I just turned off the metronome and worked on keeping my pinky still when my other fingers moved while running through a scale. It literally took all my concentration to do this.

[MarkRhodes]

You know, there's an exercise called "the crab" that I've heard about but never seen demonstrated. Starting on the low E, you put your first and third fingers on the first and third frets AT THE SAME TIME. (You don't pick anything, this is just for the left hand.) Then you place the second and fourth fingers on the second and fourth frets of the A string. And so on. (Supposedly, when you get this going fast, it looks like a crab moving across the strings.) This is supposed to be good for finger independence. Any one here more familiar with the exercise?

[Al_F]

I was working on this a little while ago, its just crazy how I 'will' my pinky to stay just above the string after playing the note but it just rears way back when playing the next note. It's going to take some time. Mark, I like the exercise you suggested.

[hed_b94]

Pinky going high is a sign of pressing the frets with the fingers (every other than the pinky) or the neck with the thump too strong. Try focusing on pressing only as much as needed!

[Al_F]

Pinky going high is a sign of pressing the frets with the fingers (every other than the pinky) or the neck with the thump too strong. Try focusing on pressing only as much as needed!

I think you're on to something. I will try this. Thanks for the help.

[Al_F]

Pinky going high is a sign of pressing the frets with the fingers (every other than the pinky) or the neck with the thump too strong. Try focusing on pressing only as much as needed!

I worked on this last night. Pressing too hard is definitely part of it. Thanks for the suggestion.

[hed_b94]

I worked on this last night. Pressing too hard is definitely part of it. Thanks for the suggestion.

This is something that imo should be practice even after you 'get it'. Effortless playing is very improtant.


As you said, it's only part of it, I think the other part is just conscious thinking which becomes eventually sub-concious thinking of putting the fingers close to the frets.

[markf]

but, if you look at some prominent players, speedy, in some cases their fingers fly everywhere, and I wonder how they do it.

ditto some violin players.

[sm5574]

I know I'm a little late to this thread, but I face this same problem and thought I'd mention an exercise I developed. You place your first finger on the sixth string, first fret. Second finger on the fifth string, second fret. Third finger fourth string, third fret. Fourth finger third string, fourth fret. The fingers should be resting on the strings and NOT pressing them down -- you should be able to see the shadow of the string on the fret.

Starting with your first finger, you press down and release. Pay attention to your other fingers and make sure they aren't pressing down, that you can always see the string shadows on the frets. Repeat with this finger several times, then move to the next finger. You don't have to play the string when you press down, but I find it helps me.

This is one of the most boring exercises you will ever do, but it is very effective. It may not completely fix the problem of fast playing, but it does help you gain more control over your fingers, which can help with other finger-training techniques.

[VincentT]

I'm also joining this forum a little late. I ended up studying guitar at a music school and one of the first things things the instructor picked up on was my finger placement and the "excessive movement" thing (I hope this helps). One exercise I was given was to play up and down (chromatic) scales with my middle finger on the same fret as the "root" and the other four fingers aligned (and horizontal) over the other three frets. The scale is played across the board so I think this might be similar to the crab (although I didn't realize the similarity until I tried markerhodes' exercise).

[Astronomer]

Pinky going high is a sign of pressing the frets with the fingers (every other than the pinky) or the neck with the thump too strong. Try focusing on pressing only as much as needed!

Brilliant! Thanks for pointing that out...I'll have to check later to see if I can adjust this

I also like that spider walk exercise. I've been doing various chromatic exercises with various finger combos to warm up, stretch and increase fretboard accuracy, but I never thought of doing that kind of technique.

[Greg Brouelette]

You know, there's an exercise called "the crab" that I've heard about but never seen demonstrated. Starting on the low E, you put your first and third fingers on the first and third frets AT THE SAME TIME. (You don't pick anything, this is just for the left hand.) Then you place the second and fourth fingers on the second and fourth frets of the A string. And so on. (Supposedly, when you get this going fast, it looks like a crab moving across the strings.) This is supposed to be good for finger independence. Any one here more familiar with the exercise?

Wow, I learned that exorcise from my classical guitar teacher many years ago. I thought it was something he made up. I use it with my students as well with these variations.

Lay all 4 fingers on the low E string on frets 1,2,3 and 4.
Moving only 1 finger at a time move the 1st finger to the A string, then teh 2nd, then the 3rd, then the 4th. Be sure to complete each move before the next one starts. Go all the way to the high E string and then back down.

Then, do different combinations such as:

1 4 2 3
1 3 2 4
4 2 3 1
4 3 2 1
3 2 1 4

Then move pairs of fingers

1-3 2-4
1-4 2-3

You will very quickly notice if you're pressing too hard. This is a great exercise for developing finger independence.

[coolvinny]

As others have mentioned, the chromatic "in position" exercise is the remedy for this. But give it time. Do not expect huge, immediate gains. However, over 6 months you will see huge improvement. The key is to go slow...like painfully slow...and strive for having no tension.

If you focus on minimizing your pinky's movements, you'll probably find that the rest of the fingers take care of themselves.

To keep this slightly more interesting, you should vary your picking styles: first learn with alternating pick strokes with downstrokes to start; next learn with alternating pick strokes with upstrokes to start (this one is hard!); next learn with 'economy/Jimmy Bruno/etc' picking. Also, learn to play it straight as well as with swing.

[Kojo27]

but, if you look at some prominent players, speedy, in some cases their fingers fly everywhere, and I wonder how they do it.

ditto some violin players.

This is from Hal Galper, and seems pure truth to me.

When it comes down to it, keeping your fingers super-close and all that... it doesn't matter that much. I play that way -- it's one aspect of technique I actually acquired -- and it probably is somewhat advantageous. However, the greatest realization of my musical life has been very recent: it's that playing an instrument, in the end, depends on your ear -- on how vividly you can "hear" ("imagine" is the real word) the music you want to play. Whether improvised or not - doesn't matter. Whatever you can vividly imagine, as happening, you can play. It's about the impulse that your brain sends to your fingers and hands, arms and shoulders... this impulse is borne of the clearly-imagined music in your mind. And if it's clear enough, the impulse will be so strong, so forceful, your hands and fingers will do almost anything to bring it into actual being.

All music, then, is really played "by ear." This is why great musicians can have "bad" technique.

Our own Jonny Pac introduced me to Hal Galper, who got the whole thing from George Kochevitsky's book, $10 at Amazon... Hal explains it better than I can:

[Avery Roberts]

I like to play as if my fingers are "dancing on the fretboard". I don't like keeping my hand and fingers "locked" at a fraction of an inch above the fret board. I feel like I'm programming a computer rather than playing an instrument if I do that.

Also "dancing on the fretboard" allows me to sound certain notes using velocity rather than muscle. I find it a very useful technique if I have staccato notes interspersed with sustained notes.

I think someone said in a prior post that if you concentrate on the music you will automatically use the correct finger position (high or low) needed to get the music and expression that you want.

Cheers

Avery Roberts

[emanresu]

That reminded me of the drum lesson long time ago.
When taking the time and do a long swing before the hit, the hit will be perfect and in complete control.
There were exercises to do the swing as nice and smooth as possible.
So when wanting to get a groovy snare, the swing helps to land it exactly where wanted.
Thats the dance there... um, ballet

[spencer096]

That reminded me of the drum lesson long time ago.
When taking the time and do a long swing before the hit, the hit will be perfect and in complete control.
There were exercises to do the swing as nice and smooth as possible.
So when wanting to get a groovy snare, the swing helps to land it exactly where wanted.
Thats the dance there... um, ballet

this guy gets it

[docsteve]

That's how Ringo does it.

[emanresu]

I wonder who has the "laziest" snare that still works.

[pauln]

Couple of things about fingers and speed of playing... for reference:

120 bpm is eighths at 4 notes/sec
150 bpm is eighths at 5 notes/sec
180 bpm is eighths at 6 notes/sec
210 bpm is eighths at 7 notes/sec
240 bpm is eighths at 8 notes/sec
270 bpm is eighths at 9 notes/sec
300 bpm is eighths at 10 notes/sec

There is a dynamic transition about 8 notes/second (what maybe most jazz guitarists consider fast) where the inertia of the fingers begins to come into play, beyond which their action becomes somewhat "ballistic" in the sense that finger placement is kind of thrown to the string unlike the way you may place the fingers at slower speeds.

Those who have done the exercise of playing a fast line very slowly, then increased speed gradually (to maintain control) will have noticed that the character of the control exertion applied to the fingers begins to need a little "advance" timing in order to account for the inertial lag. You have to know what's coming and initiate the motions a little bit early compared to slower playing. As you continue to increase speed of playing, the fingers need a little more clearance over the strings in order that they have some "runway length" to accelerate their mass, both moving to the string and moving away from the string.

The attempt to force economy of motion to fretting may become an attempt to prevent the dynamic transition where throwing the fingers from a little higher string clearance is the underlying mechanism. The real object of economy of motion is the right hand.

[sgosnell]

Just an observation, but lots of players that I see in videos, who play at what I think is a pretty fast tempo, don't really keep their fingers close to the strings. I've never done any studies on what works best, just observed that speed and economy of motion of the left hand don't seem to be necessarily directly related, at least from my limited viewpoint.