-
Originally Posted by MatsP
Economy picking actually depends on the rest stroke to execute it correctly. I hate the labels economy and alternate and benson and johnny go lightly technique, as it can confuse the actual mechanics.
Economy picking deals with the gravity of the pick stroke. Okay, take a c major scale and start on the 3rd fret 5th string with your 2nd finger. If you started with an up stroke, your D will be a downstroke, and your E (on your D string) will also be a down stroke.
In strict alternate picking, your E would be an upstroke, going against the gravity of the hand. Does that make sense or is it more confusing?
-
08-28-2015 12:23 PM
-
Originally Posted by Irez87
-
Originally Posted by MatsP
Last edited by MatsP; 08-28-2015 at 01:40 PM.
-
08-28-2015, 01:34 PM #79destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by Irez87
It may be more long-winded, but from now on I'm using Troy Grady's terms.
-
Originally Posted by destinytot
-
08-28-2015, 02:00 PM #81destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by MatsP
I do loathe wading through what looks like a documentary about dinosaurs (produced and presented by an over-earnest but idealistic and enthusiastic young science teacher with a knack for CGI...), but I really admire him and appreciate his efforts to not only explain his findings about motion mechanics but to make them entertaining. (Mind you, his fan-boy style puts such a strain on my patience that I think of him - unfairly - as Troy 'the-lightning-strike-on-the-primordial-sea' Grady.)
But I have waded through it, and I find what information I've gleaned to be invaluable - and instantly applicable.
-
Originally Posted by destinytot
-
08-28-2015, 03:50 PM #83destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by MatsP
There's actually very little content in what he says, but I find these three concepts to be enormously helpful:
1. edge picking
2. pick-slanting - backward, forward and downward
3. arm rotation
I've put them next to so-called 'anchoring' and my grip of choice - and I'm In Like Flint. I can move on.
-
Originally Posted by destinytot
-
08-28-2015, 04:36 PM #85destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by MatsP
I could almost fit those three concepts onto the back of a postage stamp. I've just read (on the new pick slanting thread) that they're well-known - but they were new to me.
Talking about the fretting hand, Julian Lage says (in a master class video that was posted recently) that 'we rotate the forearm around the pinky', and that 'you can trace the movement of the pinky all the way down to the tip of the shoulder-blade'.
I find what Julian Lage says to be hugely significant with regard to the picking hand; I believe that rotation around the 'anchored' pinky generates torque.
Moreover, I don't believe it matters which part of the pinky you use (tip, knuckle, side).
Just sharing thought on the matter.
-
Originally Posted by destinytot
Last edited by MatsP; 08-28-2015 at 11:52 PM.
-
Originally Posted by MatsP
-
08-29-2015, 09:00 AM #88destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by MatsP
Did you check out the Johnny Smith interview video - specifically, the part where he clears up an earlier 'misunderstanding' (in print) about the elbow? He uses the metaphor of a pendulum - 'the longer the shaft, the slower the swing, and vice-versa' (words to that effect).
I completely agree about the wrist - but I prefer the word 'stable'. (The constant elimination of tension - the iron, vice-like grip - is my top priority. Tai Chi is the best solution I've found, because it becomes a lifestyle. I've talked to my teacher about my picking hand, and he had me compare my little daughter's hand at rest to my own - that's become my ideal.) Johnny Smith doesn't talk about rotation, but he does refer to the wrist and faster playing.
Personally, I think the stable (soft) wrist is necessary for effective transfer of torque - the power from rotation the forearm ("around the pinky").
And I find (soft) 'anchoring' of the pinky absolutely essential in one grip, but not at all so in another.
But to return to Jimmy Bruno, what he says about the elbow makes a lot of sense to me. I'm finding that, once the wrist (and pinky) have been placed, it's best not to give them any further thought - best not to 'over-monitor'. Mind in muscle' is a double-edged sword: once fine muscles have been trained, I think it's wise not to interfere. Better to place awareness elsewhere.Last edited by destinytot; 09-05-2015 at 09:15 AM.
-
Originally Posted by destinytot
Last edited by MatsP; 08-29-2015 at 09:40 AM.
-
Originally Posted by MatsP
-
I've been working on getting the hinge movement down to a minimum in my picking and using the forearm to rotate for alternate and "sweep" picking (another detested term). I keep my wrist as loose as possible, so it may appear as if my rotation is coming from my wrist (it's not).
For any type of picking, I've found that a huge issue for many people (including ME) is that they use too much of the pick and not enough point. Also, they pick too far with each movement of the pick with faster tempos. The pick should have enough movement to just clear the girth of the string and then immediately come back up (not rest stroke for alternate picking, think free stroke?)
In terms of Tai Chi, or meditation of some sort, I agree it is helpful, especially in locating unwanted tension and ridding it from the body. I need to start doing something of that sort.
-
Originally Posted by Irez87
-
This economy picking thing really helps me strengthening my upstrokes. I'm slowly getting the hang of the technique, and I like the fact that figures don't necessarily have to sound like smattering AK-47:s. It might fit in some types of music, like Gypsy jazz and Flamenco, of course.
-
08-29-2015, 10:57 AM #94destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by Irez87
I'm firmly in favour of 'downstrokes are rest strokes, upstrokes are free strokes' at moderate tempos (and mostly downstrokes at slow ones).
I can say that I'm developing a sense of the connection between the number of notes per string in my fretting hand and picking direction in the other hand, and I feel and hear the improved articulation.Last edited by destinytot; 08-29-2015 at 11:06 AM.
-
Originally Posted by destinytot
-
08-29-2015, 01:09 PM #96destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by MatsP
The downward slant of the pick does contribute to tone (and on upstrokes, it helps the pick clear neighbouring strings), but my reason is rhythm.
It helps with 'the pocket'; the pick feels like it's cushioned by the strings on the downstroke - and (almost) bounces back.
I emphasise that I'm talking of moderate (not super-fast) tempos.Last edited by destinytot; 08-29-2015 at 01:33 PM. Reason: addition
-
Originally Posted by destinytot
-
Originally Posted by MatsP
-
OK, so now I've ordered Jimmy Bruno's "The Art of Picking". I've seen some of it already, and it looks promising.
-
Originally Posted by MatsP
New Campellone Standard on Reverb
Today, 04:54 PM in For Sale