The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by MatsP
    Speaking of rest(ish) strokes, using the weight of the thumb works very well. But on the upstrokes, I find it beneficial to have the pick somewhere on the first joint of the index finger for enough power.
    +1
    I've just discovered the joys of low string tension. (I want that on all my guitars now.)

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot
    +1
    I've just discovered the joys of low string tension. (I want that on all my guitars now.)
    What was the "+1" for? Having the pick on the first joint of the index finger? And you have to excuse me, but what does low string tension have to do with what I said?

  4. #53
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by MatsP
    What was the "+1" for? Having the pick on the first joint of the index finger? And you have to excuse me, but what does low string tension have to do with what I said?
    I apologise for causing confusion, MatsP.

    Yes, the +1 is for harnessing the power of the pick on the first joint of the index finger for up-strokes.

    Low tension makes an ally of string resistance against pick pressure. Subjectively speaking (of course), it becomes a joy to pick, press and strum.

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot
    I apologise for causing confusion, MatsP.

    Yes, the +1 is for harnessing the power of the pick on the first joint of the index finger for up-strokes.

    Low tension makes an ally of string resistance against pick pressure. Subjectively speaking (of course), it becomes a joy to pick, press and strum.
    OK on the +1 Regarding low tension, do you mean using lighter gauge strings?

  6. #55
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by MatsP
    Regarding low tension, do you mean using lighter gauge strings?
    Not necessarily.

    On the one hand, I'm suddenly enjoying low tension with .014 - .055 flatwound strings - but the guitar's got a shorter scale than I was used to.

    On the other hand, I've just put a set of .011 - .047 flats on my longer-scale 18" archtop - and I've tuned it down a whole tone. The tension is just right, and it's a joy to play - especially acoustically. (Right now, I'm listening closely to the scordatura of Al Viola with Julie London, and my hero João Gilberto.)

    The main thing I'm finding is that the act of producing single notes and chords with the right hand - regardless of speed - feels the same, in terms I can only express (verbally) with onomatopoeia - 'pop'. (Soft, fresh bread with a firm crust.)

    This 'discovery' is very exciting for me. I feel we never truly 'own' a good instrument - but we certainly don't want the instrument to 'own' us. A good set-up with low tension is like a handle on the door to a whole new world of playing.
    Last edited by destinytot; 08-27-2015 at 06:50 AM. Reason: multiple typos!

  7. #56

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    [QUOTE=destinytot;562108]

    On the one hand, I'm suddenly enjoying low tension with .014 - .055 flatwound strings - but the guitar's got a shorter scale than I was used to.

    Aren't some strings, regardless of gauge or scale length, more "low tension" than others?! I think, if I recall, this is true with some of the "tape wound" strings.

    (I don't really understand this...but I'm probably just missing something. Some of the people playing the LaBella tapewounds talk about a 14 gauge acting more like a 12 or 13...I think Howard Roberts played really thick gauge strings, 15's I think...maybe it has to do with the way the string is wound, or made?!)

  8. #57

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    Speaking of plectrums again, sorry, I have noticed that the red Dunlop Jazz III sounds really good angled and with a "rest stroke" kind of picking. The black Jazz III doesn't sound very good angled to my ears... there's some high-frequency buzz going on. I suppose the difference in materials between the red and the black one DOES make a difference here. Also, my pickups may contribute. I have a Seymour Duncan SH-2 neck pickup, and it's a bit "hi-fi" in the treble, which I don't really like. I would like a more recessed treble.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatsP
    Speaking of plectrums again, sorry, I have noticed that the red Dunlop Jazz III sounds really good angled and with a "rest stroke" kind of picking. The black Jazz III doesn't sound very good angled to my ears... there's some high-frequency buzz going on. I suppose the difference in materials between the red and the black one DOES make a difference here. Also, my pickups may contribute. I have a Seymour Duncan SH-2 neck pickup, and it's a bit "hi-fi" in the treble, which I don't really like. I would like a more recessed treble.
    I should also add that I don't own a jazz box, but a Schecter C-1 Classic, one of the more "traditional" guitar models by Schecter. Not that I'm very happy with it, but I wanted something after a long hiatus of guitar playing.

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot
    Not necessarily.

    On the one hand, I'm suddenly enjoying low tension with .014 - .055 flatwound strings - but the guitar's got a shorter scale than I was used to.

    On the other hand, I've just put a set of .011 - .047 flats on my longer-scale 18" archtop - and I've tuned it down a whole tone. The tension is just right, and it's a joy to play - especially acoustically. (Right now, I'm listening closely to the scordatura of Al Viola with Julie London, and my hero João Gilberto.)

    The main thing I'm finding is that the act of producing single notes and chords with the right hand - regardless of speed - feels the same, in terms I can only express (verbally) with onomatopoeia - 'pop'. (Soft, fresh bread with a firm crust.)

    This 'discovery' is very exciting for me. I feel we never truly 'own' a good instrument - but we certainly don't want the instrument to 'own' us. A good set-up with low tension is like a handle on the door to a whole new world of playing.
    Nice to hear! I agree that we shouldn't let the instrument own us.

  11. #60

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    Besides the Hoover, I didn't see much in terms of books for right hand development. I have the following for my right hand:

    1. Jimmy Bruno's The Art of Picking -- I don't pick from the elbow, I pick mostly from the forearm rotation and very little elbow. But his exercises are extremely musical

    2. The Johnny Smith Guitar Method -- Those 3 octave arpeggios not only hone your shifts, but get you picking across strings. He advises a strict alternate picking method for arps, but I have been using a modified gypsy style. Getting the alternate picking going on arps is a good work out.

    3. Segovia's Diatonic Scales in Major and Minor . James Chirillo told me to do these all with rest strokes as slow and even as possible. He said to strive for a nice full sound in the attack of the string. I alternate this with Johnny Smith's book.

    4. William Leavitt's Classical Studies for Pick Style Guitar-- get your string skipping on

    5. Barry Galbraith's Bach Inventions for Guitar -- Leavitt has some of the same Inventions (I studied Barry's first), but they are transposed in different keys. Leavitt mixes the parts, while Barry has a different guitar for each pianist's hand.

    Let's keep going... Any more good literature out there for right hand development?

  12. #61

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    I'm not able to provide any examples of good literature, but I like that notion of "striving for a nice full sound in the attack of the string."

  13. #62
    destinytot Guest
    [QUOTE=goldenwave77;562116]
    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot

    On the one hand, I'm suddenly enjoying low tension with .014 - .055 flatwound strings - but the guitar's got a shorter scale than I was used to.

    Aren't some strings, regardless of gauge or scale length, more "low tension" than others?! I think, if I recall, this is true with some of the "tape wound" strings.

    (I don't really understand this...but I'm probably just missing something. Some of the people playing the LaBella tapewounds talk about a 14 gauge acting more like a 12 or 13...I think Howard Roberts played really thick gauge strings, 15's I think...maybe it has to do with the way the string is wound, or made?!)
    I'm afraid I don't know much about different brands, but I can say with certainty that a new set of the same brand of heavy gauge performs far more differently on the shorter scale than I'd anticipated. I'm not only pleasantly surprised, I'm delighted. (That's why I wanted it on my longer-scaled archtop, too - it feels right, in that the pick feels like it's 'allowed' to do its job.)

    I'd be interested in trying LaBella flatwounds (because I like their 900B nylon strings with polished basses).
    Last edited by destinytot; 08-27-2015 at 11:02 AM.

  14. #63

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    All those pounds of tension don't ruin the neck? I had a nightmare guitar with a sunk truss rod, so I'll stay with 13s until I have enough money to get a custom guitar built able to withstand the tension of 14s.

  15. #64

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    Here's a rhythm and picking ex I came up with that is based on a BH concept:

  16. #65

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    Right-Hand Development for Jazz Guitar-al-bh-jpg

  17. #66

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    pick through everything

  18. #67
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    All those pounds of tension don't ruin the neck? I had a nightmare guitar with a sunk truss rod, so I'll stay with 13s until I have enough money to get a custom guitar built able to withstand the tension of 14s.
    Good wood, good construction, good set-up and adjustment - both guitars are fine.

    PS I have an .085mm 6th string on another guitar.
    Last edited by destinytot; 08-27-2015 at 12:07 PM.

  19. #68

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    Did you check with a luthier? I did when I got a luthier to make my custom bone ebony bridge. He said that if I kept putting 13 gauge strings on my guitar, that it would eventually ruin the neck. I've settled for a mixed set of 12's for E A and D and 13's for G B and E rounds. Honestly, the sound is more balanced than it was before. But I would love to play a non cutaway 4inch-5inch deep archtop guitar strung with .15 phosphor bronze stings. Billy Bean had a pretty thick guitar for amplified playing.

  20. #69
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    Did you check with a luthier? I did when I got a luthier to make my custom bone ebony bridge. He said that if I kept putting 13 gauge strings on my guitar, that it would eventually ruin the neck. I've settled for a mixed set of 12's for E A and D and 13's for G B and E rounds. Honestly, the sound is more balanced than it was before. But I would love to play a non cutaway 4inch-5inch deep archtop guitar strung with .15 phosphor bronze stings. Billy Bean had a pretty thick guitar for amplified playing.
    Yes - thanks for asking. One of my guitars was hand-built, and the others have been customised to accommodate heavy strings (including extremely heavy .016 - .085 phosphor bronze). I have my guitars serviced by an expert every three months.

    But there are things I'd rather learn to do for myself (with a little help, of course) - including truss rod adjustment. As the player, it's become important to be in the driving seat as far as maintenance goes - and the same goes for picking. I'm done with deference to mythology.

    Picking involves more than the player and the pick - and it's all quite measurable and quantifiable. I can say with confidence that there are no scary monsters under the bed.
    Last edited by destinytot; 08-28-2015 at 03:22 AM.

  21. #70

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    I didn't mean "check with a luthier" to be condescending. The reasoning behind it is because my guitar tech and the luthier have different backgrounds. One is an expert at servicing and restoring guitars, while the other is an expert at building them from scratch. My luthier said it would be an issue, my tech said just don't go higher than 13s. Is the .16 tuned at pitch with flats? Wow, that must be wild.

  22. #71
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    I didn't mean "check with a luthier" to be condescending. The reasoning behind it is because my guitar tech and the luthier have different backgrounds. One is an expert at servicing and restoring guitars, while the other is an expert at building them from scratch. My luthier said it would be an issue, my tech said just don't go higher than 13s. Is the .16 tuned at pitch with flats? Wow, that must be wild.
    It's right to ask that question (thank you, again) and checking is a very important consideration. For me, equally important (perhaps more so) is having an instrument that feels 'right', that 'fits'. Anything less would be demoralising and undermine confidence. I wouldn't wish that on anyone who read this. (I would wish them the perfect set-up to empower them to make music.)

    Having experimented, I'm sticking with lighter strings and regular tuning on my 18" archtop (with its big acoustic bark). Looking down at my right (picking) hand, the pick looks roughly like: \ whereas on my small hollow-body with .014s it's like: / I've decided to use the scordatura on my trusty beat-up nylon, which I've tuned down a tone. Played fingerstyle (without nails except on the pinky), I think it sounds great - especially with a condenser mic.

    The .016mm is tuned to D as part of a custom set (by the wonderful Welcome to Newtone Strings). The tension is also pretty low, but I needed to change the bridge and have the nut a tuning peg modified (for the .085) on the Godin 5th Ave acoustic that I use. I'm learning to play in Marty Grosz's tuning. One day, when I get my chord-soloing chops together in that tuning, I might get a vintage 16" acoustic archtop specifically for playing that way - but, for now, close mic'ing is working out fine:

  23. #72

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    You play harmony beautifully and I love the singing. I'll post my Parking song once it goes up on soundcloud. It's really rough, I sung in chorus in high school (hated it at the time, stupid kid didn't know how much it would help my guitar playing). But I'll post it ASAP, as long as you give me some vocal tips and warm ups (like the ho ho hoes and the buzzy lip thing, oh brother!)

  24. #73
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    You play harmony beautifully and I love the singing. I'll post my Parking song once it goes up on soundcloud. It's really rough, I sung in chorus in high school (hated it at the time, stupid kid didn't know how much it would help my guitar playing). But I'll post it ASAP, as long as you give me some vocal tips and warm ups (like the ho ho hoes and the buzzy lip thing, oh brother!)
    You're kind to say so. If I can help, I'd be honoured to at least try.

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    All those pounds of tension don't ruin the neck? I had a nightmare guitar with a sunk truss rod, so I'll stay with 13s until I have enough money to get a custom guitar built able to withstand the tension of 14s.
    Can ruin the top too. Some archtops with a light top and/or bracing can't handle heavy strings and the top may sink from the pressure on the bridge.

  26. #75

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    Speaking of something else, I've started to look into economy picking a la Jimmy Bruno and Frank Gambale a bit. The last time I tried it, it just felt awfully weird. But I can see the benefits of it. It's just a matter of developing a strong upstroke that sounds the same as the downstroke. And rest stroke picking is of course impossible when using this technique.