Chord melody technique: do you keep a first finger bar position by default?

[telejw]

This is the technique forum, so I’m going to indulge by asking about chord melody strategies.

I’ve been playing a lot of arrangements out of books. The Berkelee/John Stein book is one I’ve really been enjoying these days.

Lately I’ve been trying a new technique for myself where I keep the first finger in the bar position across all six strings by default, sort of “floating” there.

Say you’re playing A7 with these two chords, one after another:

5
7
6
5
X
5

to:

x
5
3
5
4
X

Normally I’d bar for the first chord, and then move my first finger down to cover the Bb on the 3rd string.

I found that my first finger was jumping around much more than necessary, so I’ve started to now have my first finger bar across the whole neck as a default position.

Now, I try to bar across the 3rd fret for the second chord. I’m just “sliding” my first finger down or up as needed.

Even if I play single note lines, afterwards I’ll try to move my first back to bar position.

I’ve found that this helps with position playing and with visualizing root centers.

I know this must be a common technique, but is this something most people also do by default? I just stumbled upon it and I’m not formally trained.

[mr. beaumont]

I guess a lot informs these decisions...economy of movement is important, especially if things are happening quickly...but that said, I do avoid barring unless absolutely necessary...I like to limit hand fatigue and barre chords seem to encourage me to play more notes in my chords, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

[pamosmusic]

I guess a lot informs these decisions...economy of movement is important, especially if things are happening quickly...but that said, I do avoid barring unless absolutely necessary...I like to limit hand fatigue and barre chords seem to encourage me to play more notes in my chords, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

+1

I wouldn’t barre at all if I could help it

[Jonah]

It is just a tool, a technique as you said. You use it when you need.

Intuitively I think I try to avoid barre where possible. I do not think a lot of it, and I can bar chords but I think it is just instinct.
Barre is more fatigue and less control.

No matter what I play - classical or jazz - and on which instrument.

Even if I play single note lines, afterwards I’ll try to move my first back to bar position.

I’ve found that this helps with position playing and with visualizing root centers.

It could be but it is rather you being at certain point of study... it looks to me more just like position playing (not necessarily barre)

[enalnitram]

My view about technical strategies is that it is great to have them in your arsenal but the choice to use them should be dictated by the music and not the other way around. Let the musical idea inform what the technique will be. Having a technical strategy informing your musical arrangement will force your piece to conform to a preconceived idea. It might be good for pedagogical or technical etude studies. But it's the opposite of freedom, inspiration, flexibility or liberated expression.

With visualization: maybe having your finger there at first will be helpful, but replacing that physical crutch with the notes' locations in your mind will take over, and you can then ward off tendonitis or other strains for a few more years.

[starjasmine]

99.99% of the time, I do not use barre chords. I use them only when a specific arrangement calls for it.

I agree with Martin that always barring is a crutch that will limit your playing in the long run.

Learning one-finger-per-fret chromatic scales will help you to eliminate excessive finger movement.

Try this:
What is the best Scale System to use when reading music?

[ragman1]

Chord melody technique: do you keep a first finger bar position by default?

Have you ever seen anybody playing like that?

[telejw]

Yes, classical players quite frequently.

I got the idea a few months ago when watching Jim Campilongo play chord melody, and I saw that he often kept his first finger across all six strings, even on chords with a 5th string low note.

In fact, Jim actually hangs his finger farther across the neck, such that the pad of his first finger is on the 6th string. It's almost as if he's fretting a note on an imaginary low 7th string. I found that thinking of bar chords this way actually lessens the fatigue a bit for me.

I don't suggest keeping the first finger in bar position 100% of the time... more like a way of thinking about chord melody.

Chord melody technique: do you keep a first finger bar position by default?

Have you ever seen anybody playing like that?

[pamosmusic]

Yes, classical players quite frequently.

I got the idea a few months ago when watching Jim Campilongo play chord melody, and I saw that he often kept his first finger across all six strings, even on chords with a 5th string low note.

In fact, Jim actually hangs his finger farther across the neck, such that the pad of his first finger is on the 6th string. It's almost as if he's fretting a note on an imaginary low 7th string. I found that thinking of bar chords this way actually lessens the fatigue a bit for me.

I don't suggest keeping the first finger in bar position 100% of the time... more like a way of thinking about chord melody.

I would take an inventory of the chords you use and see how many of those chords have un-barre-able upper notes on lower frets than the bass note.

Say ... a major or minor 6 chord on any string set.

A diminished 7 chord on any string set.

Most common inversions of major 6, minor 7, major 7, half diminished, and dominant on any string set.

Triads you could do but it would be a lot more work than just playing them. Some spread triads you couldn't do.

So I guess I would be skeptical that this would be useful to anyone except an idiosyncratic player with a chord vocabulary built around this technique. Is that you?

[Tal_175]

Barre chords come up more in classical arrangements since there are more triadic voicings in that style.
I was hired for a gig recently where one of the tunes had triadic barre chords. It made me realize that I hadn't played barre chords in years. That tune was killing me, lol.

[pamosmusic]

Yes, classical players quite frequently.

ehhhh maybe?

They certainly barre more, but they're also ruthless about economy of motion and minimizing tension. So they're not going to stay in the barre by default. It's going to be there because they're playing something that requires it. That I can say for sure.

I got the idea a few months ago when watching Jim Campilongo play chord melody, and I saw that he often kept his first finger across all six strings, even on chords with a 5th string low note.

Also ... not doubting you on this ... but

This is obviously a simple teaching arrangement, but he uses a barre zero times that it's not required. So are you 100% sure that he was in the barre by default when you were watching the other?

[ragman1]

Yes, classical players quite frequently.

I got the idea a few months ago when watching Jim Campilongo play chord melody, and I saw that he often kept his first finger across all six strings, even on chords with a 5th string low note.

In fact, Jim actually hangs his finger farther across the neck, such that the pad of his first finger is on the 6th string. It's almost as if he's fretting a note on an imaginary low 7th string. I found that thinking of bar chords this way actually lessens the fatigue a bit for me.

I don't suggest keeping the first finger in bar position 100% of the time... more like a way of thinking about chord melody.

I've just watched a few Campilongo vids. Looks like a pretty normal player to me. When he needs to keep his hand in a floaty position across the neck he does, otherwise he doesn't. Just like most of us, I think.

Have you got an example vid? Or even two for comparison's sake?

[ragman1]

Joe Pass used to say his grips were all based on bar chords but that's about as far as he went.

[Jimmy blue note]

Like grabbing chord shapes, a lot of technique comes out of the convenience of expanding ways of playing that come from open position playing. While nobody can say this is a bad idea, it's also limiting when you think of only the shapes and notes that can be played in open position (This is the idea you're asking about I assume? Barre as a movable "capo" from which you can play a chord melody?). For all the notes, intervals, chords and lines that are played ABOVE the barre, there are also an equal number of notes, intervals, chords and lines that can be played below that arbitrary delineation. For instance, root on the 5th string, you can certainly find a barre based scale that you can play on, but below the barre line are a whole set of sounds and combinations that are lost to you in a barre.
If you have a floating concept of root based playing, you can use and choose your sounds up AND down the fingerboard from the root you choose.

Barres can be useful, but they can also be a very limiting practice when your concept is improvisation and freedom. Remember that in jazz improvisation, the less limitations you set yourself, technique and concept, the more complete your playing can be. It's very different from classical that way, YOU are the arranger and you need the vision to play your notes in the moment. Don't limit yourself with a virtual "note barrier" when seeing yourself as barre based.

Here's one example of a nice chord solo that utilizes the movement of voices to form melodies in internal voices as well as melody and bass notes. You can't have this kind of freedom if you're thinking of only what is given off a barre where you've already lost one finger as the "nut" of your note palette.

But I might be wrong. If you come up with a way to play off the barre, it's your own territory that I'll never set foot in. Go for it! Find your own freedom.

[pamosmusic]

Maybe George Van Eps would be a decent example of someone who plays this way a lot?

[rpjazzguitar]

When I had a problem with the distal joint of my left index finger, I could barre more easily than not. So, I explored the technique a little bit.

Bottom line is that barreing is useful at times, especially when it can free up a finger. But, I don't see any point to always using it.

[AllanAllen]

Chord melody technique: do you keep a first finger bar position by default?

Have you ever seen anybody playing like that?

Just this guy,

[pamosmusic]

Just this guy,

erm ...

... he's not doing it, though?

[JazzPadd]

It’s an intriguing approach, using barring by default, and I can see its utility for sure, having used it on occasional for arrangements.

Lately, however, my approach is more on melody and less on the chord side of the equation. I’ve tended toward a more minimalist approach and developed on odd fetish toward minor seconds, so find myself gravitating to ways to work those in when possible, which has led to using the open strings to achieve that. At times my chord melodies are hinting at chordal harmonies rather than actually playing them full on.

But for listening I also appreciate those who use full, lush voicings and can see how barring might enable those choices beautifully.

[ragman1]

telejw -

Don't give yourself over to crazy theories, just play in a way that comes naturally to you. There's no such thing as a 'default position'.

[AllanAllen]

erm ...

... he's not doing it, though?

I must’ve misunderstood the question. Joe Pass does bar grips all the time though.

[pamosmusic]

I must’ve misunderstood the question. Joe Pass does bar grips all the time though.

Sounded to me like he was suggesting using a barre as a sort of moving capo.

I use barres all the time too. I just woudnt if I didnt have to.

[AllanAllen]

It could be a good trick to have.

[deacon Mark]

If you play like Johnny Smith with spread voicings, you cannot even think of a barre chord. Funny his arrangements are not so complicated in terms of what is going on but when you physically play them get ready to work your ass off to be clean and fluid.

I think in terms off I have 4 fingers and a thumb, what needs to be where to get the most economical movement and clarity. It all depends on and once in a while barre chord is used. I never play barred dominate 7th chord in the tradition voicing. It is either 3 fingers on 6, 4, 3rd string with two fingering options both equally available, or a small barre over 6 and 4 strings. Only reason for a full barre would be doing Chet fingerstyle alternation bass.

[Mick-7]

Joe Pass used to say his grips were all based on bar chords but that's about as far as he went.

Yes, his chord melody playing was position oriented, essentially CAGED positions. Sounds like the op, telejw, is confusing that with barring the chords, it could be mistaken for that.