Chord melody technique: do you keep a first finger bar position by default?

[pamosmusic]

It could be a good trick to have.

Sure but that’s what it is.

It’s a technique and you probably should be able to move a barre. That’s not the same thing as saying you play everything possible off a barre, even if it doesn’t need to be.

Also possible I didn’t understand the OP correctly

[rpjazzguitar]

Say you’re playing A7 with these two chords, one after another:

5
7
6
5
X
5

to:

x
5
3
5
4
X
.

Let's take a look at these two chords. I'll rewrite them to make them a little easier to read. 5x5675 to x4535x. I won't make a fuss about why you might want this sequence, I'll accept it as given that you do.

For the first one (usually called A13 (R x b7 3 13 R), btw, not A7), it's very convenient to play all three fifth fret notes with a barre. The alternative might be catching the low A with your left thumb. Or a partial barre to get the two lowest notes while playing the high A with the second finger.

The full barre has a problem. How do you mute the A string? The only way I can see is to fingerpick the chord and omit that string. If you strum it, you'll get a D note that isn't in the chord and won't sound good.

Playing the low A on the open string might work, if you can stop it from ringing when you want to.

The next chord, which is a rootless A7b9, a C#dim7 (or several other possible names), could have G on both E strings, in which case a barre would be required. But, as stated, it doesn't. You could play it by moving the 5th fret barre, or just fingering it without a barre. I don't see much advantage either way.

[telejw]

Thanks everyone. This is a helpful discussion.

I’m not a bar chord zealot by any means. And not trying to convince anyone to come over to my idiosyncratic ways.

I think it’s more the case of realizing that I was moving my first finger a whole lot more than I needed to, and realizing that sometimes a bar chord (in the way of visualizing a moving capo) is a novel way to stay economic (position playing) while also being able to see the fretboard and intervals in a helpful way visually.

I’d always avoided bar chords mentally, sort of dreading when the next one was coming. But in trying to integrate then note in my playing I feel like I’ve had a bit of a personal breakthrough.

[Mick-7]

I think it’s more the case of realizing that I was moving my first finger a whole lot more than I needed to, and realizing that sometimes a bar chord (in the way of visualizing a moving capo) is a novel way to stay economic (position playing) while also being able to see the fretboard and intervals in a helpful way visually.

The ability to find related chords in the same position, or very close to it, is a good skill to develop. You could practice playing common progressions with as few position shifts as possible.

For example, here's a couple of takes on VI7--IIm7--V7--I (Maj or min) using your A13 chord:

B9 | x-6-7-6-7-x | >> Em7 | 7-x-5-7-5-x | >> A13 | 5-x-5-6-7-(5) | >> Dmaj7 | x-5-7-6-7-(5)|

B7#5 | 7-x-7-8-8-x | >> Em7 | x-7-9-7-8-x | >> A13 | x-10-9-6-7-x | >> Dm9 | x-8-7-5-5-x |

[ragman1]

realizing that I was moving my first finger a whole lot more than I needed to

Why?

[telejw]

Why?

why not? are you seeking a chat buddy?

[pamosmusic]

why not? are you seeking a chat buddy?

Ragman is a classic Socratic.

[pamosmusic]

At a higher level there aren’t very many correct technical choices beyond keeping your hands relaxed.

So moving your first finger too much

or

Barreing too often

There isn’t really any such thing and each choice to lift or leave a barre is a balancing act based on the context.

[telejw]

Yes! This is the very type of thing I’ve been practicing. I’m not an expert, but I think my aversion to bar chords was a blocker in helping me see the fretboard in a more efficient way — if only as an option to comp or do chord melody.

In just a couple of weeks of shedding this I feel so much stronger and more relaxed with bar chords, too.

The ability to find related chords in the same position, or very close to it, is a good skill to develop. You could practice playing common progressions with as few position shifts as possible.

For example, here's a couple of takes on VI7--IIm7--V7--I (Maj or min) using your A13 chord:

B9 | x-6-7-6-7-x | >> Em7 | 7-x-5-7-5-x | >> A13 | 5-x-5-6-7-(5) | >> Dmaj7 | x-5-7-6-7-(5)|

B7#5 | 7-x-7-8-8-x | >> Em7 | x-7-9-7-8-x | >> A13 | x-10-9-6-7-x | >> Dm9 | x-8-7-5-5-x |

[ragman1]

why not? are you seeking a chat buddy?

I don't think so. The question was why do you move your first finger more than you need to? You immediately went for the solution but you weren't trying to figure out the cause. Fix the cause and you don't need a solution.

Nothing Socratic about it, it's just the quickest way of answering it.

[Mick-7]

Ragman is a classic Socratic.

He claims it's Platonic, but I think you got it right, and it's probably why I feel like taking a large shot of Hemlock after reading some of his posts.

[supersoul]

There's a Joe Pass exercise book called "Virtuoso #3" that is basically transcriptions of his playing on the album.

It includes a lot of fingering suggestions that have been helpful to me. You can see how practical he was, because he comes up with really ingenious fingering solutions.

He uses barres a lot but not all the time. He's also fingerpicking, which lets him do a partial barre and play notes on non-adjacent strings (for instance: Ab on the 6th with a Gb on the 4th).

[ragman1]

[rpjazzguitar]

The ability to find related chords in the same position, or very close to it, is a good skill to develop. You could practice playing common progressions with as few position shifts as possible.

For example, here's a couple of takes on VI7--IIm7--V7--I (Maj or min) using your A13 chord:

B9 | x-6-7-6-7-x | >> Em7 | 7-x-5-7-5-x | >> A13 | 5-x-5-6-7-(5) | >> Dmaj7 | x-5-7-6-7-(5)|

B7#5 | 7-x-7-8-8-x | >> Em7 | x-7-9-7-8-x | >> A13 | x-10-9-6-7-x | >> Dm9 | x-8-7-5-5-x |

Anything you can do to learn more ways to voice chords is a positive.

That said, another wrinkle or two could be added to this exercise.

1. Pick sequences that allow the top notes of the chords to make a little melody. Or, perhaps, be a pedal tone. In the first example above, playing Em9 x7577x or 7x577x creates an F# pedal at the top of the chords.

2. Pick sequences that create some melody or logic in the lowest notes of the chords. One consideration is whether you are developing solo guitar ideas, which might tend to put the root in the bass, vs. ideas for playing with a bassist, in which case chords need to be selected to work with the bassist's notes. I'm not sure that mixing it up w orks as well.

Movement of a half or whole step at a time, in the bass, is a tried and true strategy. Jumping around might not sound as good, although it depends on context.

The idea, overall, is that getting something cool happening in the highest and lowest notes is a very good idea and one that a player might as well practice from the beginning.

[ccroft]

There's a Joe Pass exercise book called "Virtuoso #3" that is basically transcriptions of his playing on the album. .......
He uses barres a lot but not all the time. He's also fingerpicking, which lets him do a partial barre and play notes on non-adjacent strings (for instance: Ab on the 6th with a Gb on the 4th).

There's a vid where Tim Lerch demonstrates exactly that. A partial bar instead of using 2 separate fingers on non-adjacent strings frees up a finger to do something else...like play a melody.

Mark Klienhaut does it a lot. In fact I remarked on it several years ago, and even called it a sort of 'moving capo'. Now there's a guy who has relaxation and economy of motion big time. Study his left hand sometime.

I think that's where the payoff is. Not so much with a full barre most of the time.

[spencer096]

I guess a lot informs these decisions...economy of movement is important, especially if things are happening quickly...but that said, I do avoid barring unless absolutely necessary...I like to limit hand fatigue and barre chords seem to encourage me to play more notes in my chords, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

agreed it depends on the moment.

if im comping in a duo and doing a lot of walking bass, barres get in the way and add a lot of string noise. if im doing solo stuff, being able to fill more space with a moveable barre is great and use the moveable barre constantly...if im comping in a group, it can be too much clutter.

[Gilpy]

I use the barre quite a bit in solo playing, more for stuff that’s worked out than for improvisation. Maybe too much.
I like to get those bass notes in there, and I have a lot of dexterity and freedom of movement with the other three fingers, so it works.
But as I get older I find that it contributes to hand fatigue and I’m trying to use the barre less.

[tbeltrans]

As with anything on the guitar (r anywhere else, I suppose), there are pros and cons. I have lost half my weight over the past year or so due to medications and now my fingers are too bony to effectively play barre chords without having to be VERY careful to ensure that the strings I want to sound, do. This probably sounds funny, but it is a very real thing for me. Also, when you have that index finger tasked with handling all 6 (or 7) strings cleanly, it can become a bit of a strain for the other fingers to move around.

I have been forced lately to find alternatives to barre chords. Since I know the notes around the fretboard and can "spell" chords as well as knowing what notes I can leave out, I am able to voice chords as needed. These things are not at all difficult to get to know and well worth the effort.

It isn't that I am anti-barre chording (or any other technique), but instead that due to my current situation, I have had to adjust and am finding that different approaches other than barre chording all the time, leave my fingers the freedom to do more interesting things. It really depends on the style of music we are playing. Rock and pop music will necessarily requires barre chording, but chord melody has a lot of leeway for interpretation, for example.

So in short, I would work on alternatives to tying up the index finger with constant barre chording.

Tony