The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I’m pretty sure it has already posted, but I can’t find it.
    what are the main fingerings for scales and arpeggios using the three fingers technique (a la wes)?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    This one is for the common fingering that puts the tonic on the same fret for strings 1 and 6. Each of the three fingers has six places (representing the strings where parentheses indicate two possibilities pending what another finger is doing).


    three fingers technique-hand-jpg

  4. #3

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    Can't understand.
    If I want to play a C major scale from the C on the 6th string, what is the fingering?
    (even if I believe I have to think in a more diagonal way and not vertical....)

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by gianluca
    I’m pretty sure it has already posted, but I can’t find it.
    what are the main fingerings for scales and arpeggios using the three fingers technique (a la wes)?
    Someone should write instructional material on three finger technique for jazz.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieparker
    Someone should write instructional material on three finger technique for jazz.
    Christian Miller has posted on this subject a few times.


  7. #6

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    Three finger technique can also be better biomechanically. Your fingers move faster when flatter and with motion from the big knuckles. Curved fingers are slower.

    Try sticking your hand out in front of you in a relaxed state and wiggle your fingers then try curving them like you want to play the high e string with the tips of your fingers and see the difference.

  8. #7

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    As for fingerings, for the record, the 4th finger is used sometimes. I dont think this would be codified but probs 1st finger stretches and slides and playing more from a CAGED shapes as opposed to 3NPS would be the ticket

  9. #8

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    A better system is to learn the scales and arpeggios using your pinky, but don’t force it when playing.

    You don’t want to learn someone else’s handicap, reminds me of those guys who tape their pinky and ring finger to be more like Django.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Christian Miller has posted on this subject a few times.

    still not very helpful: he teachs more inclination in left hand but doesn’t play like that.
    and he teachs how to go forward but not backward, which is the less intuitive way to me…

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanAllen
    A better system is to learn the scales and arpeggios using your pinky, but don’t force it when playing.

    You don’t want to learn someone else’s handicap, reminds me of those guys who tape their pinky and ring finger to be more like Django.
    my idea is that this technique allows a better flowing phraising, because you have to think to the fretboard like a piano player; you are forced to think to the notes and try to reach them; that seems to me as opposite to vertical lick phrasing which is more natural with the four fingers.
    I think to it as a plus, not an handicap…

    it’s just a guess
    Last edited by gianluca; 09-29-2024 at 07:58 PM.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by gianluca
    my idea is that this technique allows a better flowing phraising, because you have to thik to the fretboard like a piano player; you are forced to think to the notes and try to reach them; that seems to me as opposite to vertical lick phrasing which is more natural with the four fingers.
    I think to it as a plus, not an handicap…

    it’s just a guess
    To me, I think it’s working hard on the wrong thing.

    Any way, I don’t think it’s anything set in stone or a system. Wes most likely learned the arpeggios the same way we did and just played them on the fly. I’ve never heard that Wes was a shapes player, like Charlie Christian, you learn his lines and you can see the arpeggio he’s outlining.

    I haven’t learned much Wes… maybe none actually. So maybe I’m wrong.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by gianluca
    my idea is that this technique allows a better flowing phraising, because you have to thik to the fretboard like a piano player; you are forced to think to the notes and try to reach them; that seems to me as opposite to vertical lick phrasing which is more natural with the four fingers.
    I think to it as a plus, not an handicap…

    it’s just a guess
    You could just keep using four fingers and practice on string sets. Pairs or single strings.

  14. #13

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    Not a jazz book but this might be helpful Amazon.com

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by gianluca
    still not very helpful: he teachs more inclination in left hand but doesn’t play like that.
    and he teachs how to go forward but not backward, which is the less intuitive way to me…
    At some point I should go into more depth and specificity about this - but I’m still working it out. My aim is to play more like that and I think I’m making progress. I will report back at some point….

    I’m not really someone who has ever studied fingerings from books, so it doesn’t always occur to me to do that sort of stuff.

    However - I do provide some specifics of fingering well known bebop heads and I have tabbed out examples in the pdf handout (paywalled)




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    Last edited by Christian Miller; 09-29-2024 at 03:10 PM.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanAllen
    A better system is to learn the scales and arpeggios using your pinky, but don’t force it when playing.

    You don’t want to learn someone else’s handicap, reminds me of those guys who tape their pinky and ring finger to be more like Django.
    Why not? Those guys kill it at the Django stuff and I’m sure they learned a lot by going through that. I’ve never gone that far but it is interesting to try Django lines with two fingers. You might not end up using those fingerings but it is interesting. Problem solving and a bit of sleuthing.

    (It’s same sort of stuff in a different way working on Holdsworth. Except with him there’s no other way than his fingerings quite a lot of the time so it’s process of elimination.)

    And when it comes to non guitar stuff you have more options on how to approach stuff.

    You have endless people obsessing about variations on right hand technique but as soon as you make a suggestion about exploring other left hand approaches everyone turns into a classical guitar teacher from 1964 or something…

    (I mean I’m like that when teaching seven year olds, but we are presumably adults now? Do we really think George Benson would have been better had he had classical left hand? He would, I’d argue, have played different.)

    I feel I’ve learned a lot by looking carefully at the way my favourite players play. But I understand if people feel overwhelmed about learning things different ways when it’s hard enough to do it one way.

    I was half joking the other day with a student that I should just play with three fingers and downstrokes…. But the thing is when I play that way it does sound better haha. It is vibey and I feel it swings more even if it’s a little more limited.

    But I’ve been ruined!

    We all want to do the fancy stuff…

  17. #16

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    Here you go.

    three fingers technique-3-finger-major-scales-jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  18. #17

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    I also think people on the forum focus too much on scales in position. I’m not saying don’t do it - but more that jazz lines don’t much resemble scales in position.

    Also - you may want to explore using different fingerings going up and down scales.

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  19. #18

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    I sort of feel the same way on right hand technique. Figure out a few things, then when you play just play and don’t force it.

    I’m also 41 years old with an hour to practice on good days. So purposely making things harder is the opposite I want to go.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by setemupjoe
    Here you go.

    three fingers technique-3-finger-major-scales-jpg
    thank you very much: it’s very clear, it is the “translation” of normal 4 fingers in 3 fingers, and the idea is now clear;
    but, when I see wes ore george live playing I think they have a different mental approach to fingerings, not vertical but orizontal.

    and
    if i try to play my usual routine (sequences of 4 or 6 notes gabc abcd bcde and so on) I have to do a lot of innatural move that I never see wes or george do…
    ?

  21. #20

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    Yes, these fingerings don’t answer your question of how players like Wes and Benson move around the neck. It’s not explained by simply using a three finger approach. The answers are not easily condensed down to a few sentences. If you’re looking for information Peter Farrell’s videos on YouTube will point you in the right direction.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    I also think people on the forum focus too much on scales in position. I’m not saying don’t do it - but more that jazz lines don’t much resemble scales in position.
    bro. I’m RIGHT here.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    You have endless people obsessing about variations on right hand technique but as soon as you make a suggestion about exploring other left hand approaches everyone turns into a classical guitar teacher from 1964 or something…

    ...

    But I’ve been ruined!

    We all want to do the fancy stuff…
    I agree. Also, I may also have been ruined.

    What I'm saying is that 3 finger/thumb over technique is just as biomechanically advantageous with the neck positioned parallel to the ground as classical position for low tension fast playing. Just another approach, maybe even a more advantageous approach (Benson, Martino, Bernstein, Cecil Alexander, Lucian Gray)

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by pamosmusic
    bro. I’m RIGHT here.
    Winter of not practicing things in position, perhaps?

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by bediles
    Winter of not practicing things in position, perhaps?
    Honestly I practice across string sets more than positions. I think my desert island practice would be playing across pairs of strings. Like if I could only practice one thing from now until I quit, it would be that.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by pamosmusic
    Honestly I practice across string sets more than positions. I think my desert island practice would be playing across pairs of strings. Like if I could only practice one thing from now until I quit, it would be that.
    Gotcha.

    You going to learn melodies on string pairs? Or technical stuff?... 2 note per string 7th arps? Triad pairs? Scales?