Failure and weakness

[RJVB]

Weirdly, this doesn’t help

So you also can't play whole notes?

[Christian Miller]

So you also can't play whole notes?

I can do eighth notes, and quarter triplets. Any good?


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[Mick-7]

I don't think my phrases sound like bebop.

I'm a sucker for hippy chicks.

I'm having a hard time seeing a connection between those two statements.... maybe that hippie chicks are usually not responsive to bebop so your liability becomes an asset?

[RJVB]

I can do eighth notes, and quarter triplets. Any good?

Are you asking me if you can do them well? Sorry, my mommy told me never to judge

[Onesimus]

Being self taught and learning by ear. I grew up in an area where that was the only way to learn to play. However, even after reaching adulthood and living in areas where formal music training was available I never took advantage of it.

Now, after being a lifelong music lover and playing guitar for thirty-nine years I have finally taken a first step. I purchased the Mel Bay Modern Guitar Method Grade 1 Expanded Edition a couple of months ago. It has been fun studying and learning the music language so far. At the least, this course has revived my love of guitar playing and music. Time well spent.

[AllanAllen]

Being self taught and learning by ear. I grew up in an area where that was the only way to learn to play. However, even after reaching adulthood and living in areas where formal music training was available I never took advantage of it.

Now, after being a lifelong music lover and playing guitar for thirty-nine years I have finally taken a first step. I purchased the Mel Bay Modern Guitar Method Grade 1 Expanded Edition a couple of months ago. It has been fun studying and learning the music language so far. At the least, this course has revived my love of guitar playing and music. Time well spent.

This is the same thing I did. Mel Bay helped me a lot. After Mel Bay you can do the Mickey Baker and Bugs Bower books. Then you’ll be off to the races.

[Bobby Timmons]

After 30 years of studying jazz guitar and playing gigs for actual money I have come to the conclusion that I can’t really play quarter notes.

Uh have you tried playing bass? Either on guitar or bass?

[Bobby Timmons]

Some big past failures:

1. Bass was my 1st instrument and I could theory up what notes to use to adequately accompany a band. When I went to try to solo or play other melody instruments I was all errrrr. Had to improve my ear to learn how melody actually goes!

2. 2 might be even worse. I didn't understand how technique was a thing until I'd been a musician for about 20 years. It was actually Reg going on about chops and technical skills all the time that made me figure it out. I'd think, 'I've been playing kind of a long time, why do my recordings still sound all shoddy'. No semblance of technique is preventing good time feel!

These days I'm feeling pretty good without any huge shortcomings that are killing me. Of course want to tighten things up but feeling pretty good. A thing that bugs me currently is I can't really jam out well in a pop style on piano. But that's just cuz I spend all my time on jazz. I could do it if I worked on it a lot I think.

[Christian Miller]

Are you asking me if you can do them well? Sorry, my mommy told me never to judge

It’s my job to judge myself and others. And I judge them to be better than my quarter notes.

As for my judgements of others, life has taught me that these are best monetised or kept to myself;-)


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[Christian Miller]

Uh have you tried playing bass? Either on guitar or bass?

Of course…. How do you think I know?


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[AllanAllen]

Here you go Christian, James Chrillo talking about how he practices quarter notes. I'll save you a click though and say it's with a metronome and a recorder. No shortcuts in this game.

[spencer096]

my sight reading sucks

[Sam Sherry]

What’s your greatest failure or weakness?

It's probably a tie between ego / hubris and laziness / inconsistency.

The details all flow from there.

[Mick-7]

Oddly enough, my greatest weakness is whatever I have not practiced, that and not playing the guitar for years at a time while I was busy climbing other mountains. So not practicing/playing is the common denominator.

[lawson-stone]

Nah I’m gonna give up jazz guitar and go into lion taming


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I think I'll go for being an airline pilot. has to be easier than jazz guitar

[Christian Miller]

Here you go Christian, James Chrillo talking about how he practices quarter notes. I'll save you a click though and say it's with a metronome and a recorder. No shortcuts in this game.

I know you’re trying to help, so thanks :-)

That’s not actually the intent of my OP. More like “argh, I still can’t do this basic thing, hilarious”. Ah well back to the grindstone.

I’ll explain a little further - the specific issue in this case is I can play 8th note and triplets and upbeats and bebop heads in time with a click on the ‘and’ of one or three, but when I move to quarter notes I end up on the click. This is a good exercise that I hadn’t looked at for a while (though very hard at first it does get easier quickly.)

It is very funny to me when after months of practicing this nonsense I realised I’d completely neglected to practice basic quarter notes this way. And lo and behold I suck at them.

The moral of the story is - work on fundamentals always. It’s already improving. The main thing is to know something’s an issue, which easier said than done. I often neglect the on beats because I’m so focussed on the “jazzy” rhythms. Classic.

The joke is I have been booked to play rhythm guitar probably the most of anything over the past fifteen years. I’m basically a professional quarter note guy. And still… it’s not to my satisfaction.

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[AllanAllen]

If you watch the video, you'll see even he struggles with them. Which gave me one of those "You mean it'll always be like this" moments of terror. You see, in the back of my head I think I'm practicing so much now, so that one day I'll be satisfied with what I play. It doesn't seem like that happens.

[Christian Miller]

If you watch the video, you'll see even he struggles with them. Which gave me one of those "You mean it'll always be like this" moments of terror. You see, in the back of my head I think I'm practicing so much now, so that one day I'll be satisfied with what I play. It doesn't seem like that happens.

Yes I kind of mean that’s the point of my OP …

In any case go to any masterclass with anyone who plays great and you hear the same thing. It’s just funny sometimes, at least I choose to find it funny, when you have these moments in your own music making after years.

More broadly I would say people think failure and weakness are bad things. But I have a feeling I don’t need to tell you that failure is a great teacher - and of course it is best to know your weaknesses.

As for the latter what do you do?

either you can work on them, and you might be able to raise the level where it’s necessary.

or you - and this is the thing that I should really learn - where appropriate let go of them and consolidate your strengths - and, if necessary HIRE someone to do the stuff you can’t for you. Life is finite, music is big.

It’s what Sco would do.

The latter is real professionalism, because believing one can thrash everything into a pulp with a toxic mix of self belief and determination is itself a trap. You have to choose your battles, and run away when it’s judicious to do so. I’m really bad at doing this.

(That’s not very self helpy, but it’s true.)

I’m still going to work on my quarter notes though haha.


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[AllanAllen]

And I'm going to keep avoiding anything north of 200 bpm. Speed has never been my thing, and at 41 I'm not getting any faster.

[Christian Miller]

And I'm going to keep avoiding anything north of 200 bpm. Speed has never been my thing, and at 41 I'm not getting any faster.

You don’t have to play fast to play quick tempos. Jim Hall shows that.


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[pamosmusic]

You don’t have to play fast to play quick tempos. Jim Hall shows that.


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YESSSSSS

I have students starting playing quarters with an anticipated beat one at like … 250 bpm to see how they do.

Ive been working on Jim Halls Stompin at the Savoy and it’s an absolute masterclass. You’ll be just cooking along at 230-240 and then all of a sudden he fires off some monster eighth note line and you remember that he can? do it … he just chooses not to most of the time.

[pamosmusic]

You might not believe me but I also make them listen to old Fall Out Boy for the drums.

[Bobby Timmons]

And I'm going to keep avoiding anything north of 200 bpm. Speed has never been my thing, and at 41 I'm not getting any faster.

Same. I'm not one of those guys who writes off fast tempos as not having musical merit.. because they can't do them. I like bebop. I like the intricate lines but fast and all bobbing and weaving. Although listening to a lot of really fast tunes is tiresome to me. And I certainly don't really enjoy trying to play blazing speeds. It's just not enjoyable to me to have to spaz the f out to play a tune adequately. I'm not gonna write it off, some fast rhythms and up tempos are essential for me and my playing. But up to 200 is plenty for me.

[pamosmusic]

Interesting. I'm not sure 200 bpm would be considered all that fast in jazz. Drum genius has the "med. up swing" category with tempos from 166-244. I'd consider the top end of that to be properly up-tempo, but not crazy fast.

Not to say I'm smoking tempos above 240. I start to feel a bit off around 250 maybe? Just that there's a lot of music going on in that range.

As an aside ... I've been working on those tempos a lot lately, particularly with rhythm changes, and they've gotten a little better, or the ceiling a bit higher. But the thing that really helped without even really working on up tempos was all the Grant Green I transcribed in the spring. Just copying a dude who leaves a lot of space was pretty big.

[rpjazzguitar]

Just one?

Maybe the inability to correctly and confidently judge, in the moment, whether I'm sounding good.