-
I was asked who this guys are. I do not know. According to one comment sayin "my cousins" they might be from the Weiß clan.
Originally Posted by Bop Head
Sometimes I search for "Sinti Musik" (in German) on YouTube to come up with some real shit.
You will learn something about the gypsys' sentimental musical taste LOL. But you will also find some gems of people playing guitar at home in the living rooms or on the road at private camps.
When you look at the comments you will see a lot of (always differently transliterated) Romanes and bad German spelling. Which shows that 80 years after the Porajmos most of the German Sinti are still living at the fringe of mainstream society and many have only basic school education. They have their own private jurisdiction and stay away from German law and order which is understandable regarding their history. (There are all those anti-muslim Nazi haters agitating with foam at the mouth about the sharia soon replacing the German legal system but no one ever dares to talk about orthodox jews or gypsies having their private jurisdictions. Which is also probably simply unknown to most.) There are stills tons of prejudice ...
A few month ago I took a piano playing Sinto buddy to a jam session and when we came in two Germans were playing Nuages. My buddy said to me "We are bored of that old shit. We play it only for the Germans." LOLLast edited by Bop Head; 07-25-2024 at 10:36 PM.
-
07-25-2024 10:21 PM
-
Thanks for posting this. I had assumed, incorrectly I now know, that you needed a certain kind of guitar to play that style. Emboldened by this video, I copped some of the lines and imitated the vibrato. It was recognizably somebody trying to play Gypsy Jazz -- which is a step in the right direction. Originally Posted by Bop Head
-
You are welcome. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Sometimes there are even no guitars at all LOL. "Music for the heart" is a term you will often read in comments. And the gipsies have no reservation against cheesy auto-accompanyment LOL.
This video (Maccaferi type guitars here) from the same channel as the first video gave me the idea that tiktok might also be a good source for the real shit.
Which turned out to be right. Here is another guy playing electric.
https://www.tiktok.com/@benito_jazz/...47116896374049
And swing still seems to be dance music LOL.
https://www.tiktok.com/@efterwagengr...36673785335066Last edited by Bop Head; 07-26-2024 at 12:41 AM.
-
I found out who the guys are -- Jeffrey, Marcel and Mirano Weiss [sic] w/ Oliver Zierke (bass), all from Hamburg, a.k.a. Django Forever. There is also a YouTube channel of the group. Originally Posted by Bop Head
BTW there is a huge crack in the top of the guitar of the guy with the glasses (Jeffrey).
EDIT: This is the original of the tune in the first video I posted:
Last edited by Bop Head; 07-26-2024 at 02:23 AM.
-
I guess it's understandable why in Germany one is careful saying anything negative about both groups ... but more in general they're not "evangelising" (to use an absolutely inappropriate term Originally Posted by Bop Head
).
-
Django's most beautiful composition is "old shit." Originally Posted by Bop Head
Every day we stray further from god.
-
"O tempora, o mores!" LOL Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Calm down or I'll post a Sinti breakdance video.
-
Rather, find a video of some young one trying to learn to play. From what I understand they're given an instrument at some early age, and then sent of to practise on their own until they can play. Originally Posted by Bop Head
Maybe true only for violin, but I rather listen to breakdance than to someone trying to get a sound out of a violin without proper guidance
-
Haha, let me see what I can find. Meanwhile I found one for Stringswinger. (There is some guitar playing in this video.) Originally Posted by RJVB
Rather, find a video of some young one trying to learn to play. From what I understand they're given an instrument at some early age, and then sent of to practise on their own until they can play.
Maybe true only for violin, but I rather listen to breakdance than to someone trying to get a sound out of a violin without proper guidance
-
Tbf I get a bit bored of Nuages. I would put Manoir de mes Reves and Tears up there though. I also like Troublant Bolero. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
To my ear, Django Forever operate right in the center of the tradition, with textures and techniques taken from acoustic Django to electric Django to the elder Ferrets and Joseph Reinhardt to the German-gypsy inheritors that absorbed some later mainstream influences (including non-Maccaferri electric guitar). And to my eyes, both the right- and left-hand activities match what I've seen in many traditional GJ band lineups. And I think the only versions of "Seul Ce Soir" I'd previously heard were those of Django and his inheritors. But that's the case with many French popular tunes--they come to the Anglophone world via either GJ or musette.
-
From what I have heard (from being told) and seen (not in person but on video) there is always someone showing you something -- be it your father, brother or cousin. And you learn from watching the older people play. No one is being sent to practice without being shown something before. Originally Posted by RJVB
Last edited by Bop Head; 07-26-2024 at 02:51 PM.
-
This is very interesting, a live example of oral tradition, this is how a gipsy daddy teaches his son arpeggio runs:
-
You must consider how often he must have played the song in his 40 years. (Same for you probably, Christian, as you have really played GJ quite a bit, not all your life but more than me at least who only goes to a GJ jam now and then.) Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Borders on child abuse. Originally Posted by Bop Head
-
That's why they call themselves Django Forever. Originally Posted by RLetson
-
Modern pop music influences:
-
Although you're probably speaking tongue-in-cheek: I do not see that at all. The father is proud of his son who shows some talent and the son is proud of playing with the big guys. Originally Posted by Mick-7
Borders on child abuse.
Read the Oscar Peterson biography and then we can talk about children having to practice music and abuse ...
-
Yes, I was only kidding, however that guitar is too big for the boy and makes playing more of a struggle than it should be. Don't know about Oscar P. but it doesn't sound good. Originally Posted by Bop Head
-
There are even videos on the same channel where he plays his "Tata"'s guitar. The other one is probably the smallest children size they could get. Originally Posted by Mick-7
Yes, I was only kidding, however that guitar is too big for the boy and makes playing more of a struggle than it should be. Don't know about Oscar P. but it doesn't sound good.
O. Peterson's very strict father was working for a Canadian railway company and was traveling the whole week. Every week little Oscar was given a classical piano piece as an assignment for practice. If the father would return and the execution wasn't perfect he would beat Oscar. It's more than 40 years that I read that so I do not remember exactly if he would "only" beat him with a ruler on his fingers or worse ...
-
As a teenager I used to listen to bits of a radio show called "A good morning with <some "known" Dutchperson>" presenting there choice in music and what was so special about it for them. More often than not they were so proud now to have had piano lesson torture of the sort as a kid, such a wonderfully formative experience (bla bla bla)... Originally Posted by Bop Head
(I think this probably tainted my perception of "piano gods" just a wee bit!)
It's not like the instrument doesn't lend itself to it! (Or maybe because these guys are no Romani...) Originally Posted by Bop Head
(dunno how "manouche" this is, but it's definitely so French-sounding that you almost forget it's a tango)
(I remembered these because JWC were on my short/shopping list last year.)
-
It does not really sound like tango to me. I used to work at milongas for several years and there was also live music from time to time so I have heard quite a bit of that music from simpler and folkloristic ... Originally Posted by RJVB
... to through-composed, virtous and sophisticated (this guy lives in Munich):
Real tango argentino has lots of dramatic dynamics and ritardandos and accelerandos.
-
If I'm not mistaken it's Dyens's "tango en skai" so I wasn't wrong that it sounds French. Originally Posted by Bop Head
It could be a tango formally but depending on how/by whom it's played it may not sound that way ...
-
Do Nuages in A flat (Django did it in F and A flat with clarinet players). A key change can make an old tune new again. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
@ Bophead Thanks for the info on Django Forever. I really like their 60's Gypsy jazz sound. And the video of the Gypsy Bikers was fun. Those two guitarists in that video make those nylon string guitars sound great for Gypsy jazz. Years ago I saw Bireli Lagrene do a show and Bireli had Thomas Dutronc with him, who was playing a nylon string guitar with a cutaway.
If you have the chops, you can pretty much play any genre of music on any type of guitar. If guitarists obsessed more on chops rather than gear, they would be better guitarists.
Reply With Quote
Yamaha SA2200 - dynamics
Today, 05:24 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos