So, What Was so Good about the DeArmond Rhythm Chief Pickups?

[sgosnell]

I have no personal experience with the FHC or RC1000, but I have two repro RC1100s and I really, really like them. All three models, as vintage, are incredibly expensive. An original monkey-on-a-stick will set you back a very pretty penny, and the original output cable, if present, almost always needs replacement because of deterioration with age.

I don't see that touching the top is much of an issue, if any, on an acoustic. The top doesn't vibrate much at all at the end of the neck, and the pickups are very light. I use a small hard foam block and some putty under the 1100, to keep it in place. Without that it can rotate around the rod. The pickguard usually keeps it in place, but I don't use a pickguard. I went for the 1100 specifically for the adjustable polepieces, and I'm glad I did. I've had bronze, nickel, monel, and steel wound strings on the same guitar at different times, and they help maintain a balanced output. I'm sold on the RC1100 repro pickup. It's certainly not a high output pickup. But lately I've been playing a Benedetto with a set pickup, and I love that, too. The FHC doesn't sound at all acoustic to me, in the videos I've seen. Few magnetic pickups do, though, if any.

[RJVB]

What you're describing is a little bit like the differences between 2 different (vintage) GM brands ... packaging

Maybe the FHC letters stand for something significant. Just for giggles: you couldn't power an actual electret or piezo microphone from the voltage generated in the PU, right?

[RJVB]

I don't see that touching the top is much of an issue, if any, on an acoustic. The top doesn't vibrate much at all at the end of the neck, and the pickups are very light. I use a small hard foam block and some putty under the 1100, to keep it in place. Without that it can rotate around the rod.

Do you mount it with the monkey or with the bracket the screws into the neck? There's a tab that presumable goes underneath the pickguard, but I don't see a hole in it so it's not clear how it's supposed to be attached.

I had a faint but easily audible buzz after changing my pickguard. Turned out to be 1 of the cables coming off the PU that touched the top, just after the PG screw (which goes into the cut-away kerfing of block). It must have been inaudible for others or through the PU, but I heard it; it went away after I push that wire up (thankfully no tape required this time). So yeah, the top does vibrate there. Maybe along with the rest of the body instead of freely. Lining the underside of the PU with felt or a thin piece of leather should prevent buzzing but must dampen the acoustic sound however minimally. BTW, what happens when you screw a polepiece all the way down? On my KA the screw sticks out below the PU casing and would definitely scratch the finish when there are vibrations.

(I've ridden Italian MCs, another great school for learning not to underestimate the impact of vibrations )

[floatingpickup]

What you're describing is a little bit like the differences between 2 different (vintage) GM brands ... packaging

Maybe the FHC letters stand for something significant. Just for giggles: you couldn't power an actual electret or piezo microphone from the voltage generated in the PU, right?

The 1941 De’Armond catalog featured the new FH/FHC pickup. The letters stand for F Hole model (FH) and F Hole model with volume Control (FHC). The catalog also shows their RH/RHC pickup for Round Hole guitars. Catalog, 1941 November, Silver, Form D100, Model FHC. | musicpickups.com

[sgcim]

I also assumed Johnny Smith used a Rhythm Chief on the Roost recordings. I have seen many photos of his D’Angelico with an RC pickup. There is a site that has a lot of information and history of the De’Armond company. It says the FHC came out in the early 1940’s and the RC1000 was realeased around 1948. That site includes a 1949 catalogue that shows both of those models available at that time Catalog, 1949 & 1950, Red, Form No. 119, Misc. products. | musicpickups.com So, my guess is that Johnny probably used the RC1000 on those recordings.
Keith

I was certain he used an RC 1000 too, but after I got Roger Borys to install the Guild repro of the RC 1100 on my D'A, he asked me what sound I was going for. I told him the JS/ Kenny Burrell type of sound that they got out of their D'A's.
Roger said, "Well, if you wanted the JS sound, you should have used the Guitar Mike DeArmond pickup, because JS used that on the Roost albums of the 50s"
I just looked at the cover of all the JS albums I have on vinyl, and the only ones that you can clearly see the pickup are the JS With Strings, and the New JS Quartet albums, and they clearly have a pickup with a rectangle shape, not the rounded shape with the red top that my old RC 1000 had.

The guitar on the Guitar and Strings is clearly his orange-hued D'A, while the guitar on the New Quartet is a yellow guitar that looks like a Guild.
Hopefully, experts like Winter Moon, Max 405, JGalich, and Stringswinger will chime in, and clear this urgent matter up.
I would summon them on my Batphone, but it is currently out of order.

[sgosnell]

I mount mine with the short rod attached to the bass side of the neck. The hole for the rod goes through the bass end of the pickup. The tab on the other end goes behind the pickguard, if one is mounted. Nothing else holds it, and it's not necessary for it to touch the top. I just do it, because it's more secure, and I think I can hear a slightly better tone. Floating pickups tend to sound thin, and being in contact with the top seems to help with that, albeit all so slightly. YMMV. The top does vibrate slightly at the end of the neck, but damping it doesn't have an audible effect, IME. I put a set humbucker in one acoustic archtop, and I couldn't hear any difference acoustically.

The polepieces can't go below the pickup, because there are no holes in the bottom. It comes with a felt circle on the bottom, to prevent scratching the top if it does touch. Having no holes in the bottom does prevent it going as low as I would like, and I have removed the B string polepiece completely, or currently have it cut down shorter, so it can go lower. Removing it completely probably works a little better to balance volume, but it doesn't look as good. Compromises must sometimes be made.

[sgosnell]

The guitar pictured on the album cover is not necessarily the guitar used to make the recordings, and multiple guitars might even have been used. I have no insight into Johnny Smith's recordings, but I would not bet the farm on the pictured guitar ever having been played on any recording.

[floatingpickup]

I was certain he used an RC 1000 too, but after I got Roger Borys to install the Guild repro of the RC 1100 on my D'A, he asked me what sound I was going for. I told him the JS/ Kenny Burrell type of sound that they got out of their D'A's.
Roger said, "Well, if you wanted the JS sound, you should have used the Guitar Mike DeArmond pickup, because JS used that on the Roost albums of the 50s"
I just looked at the cover of all the JS albums I have on vinyl, and the only ones that you can clearly see the pickup are the JS With Strings, and the New JS Quartet albums, and they clearly have a pickup with a rectangle shape, not the rounded shape with the red top that my old RC 1000 had.

The guitar on the Guitar and Strings is clearly his orange-hued D'A, while the guitar on the New Quartet is a yellow guitar that looks like a Guild.
Hopefully, experts like Winter Moon, Max 405, JGalich, and Stringswinger will chime in, and clear this urgent matter up.
I would summon them on my Batphone, but it is currently out of order.

Interesting. he certainly could have used a Guitar Mike at that time, since that pickup was introduced in about 1941. Maybe someone here knows more about Johnny’s equipment. I would like to check my Johnny Smith biography for old pictures, but I’m out of town right now.
Keith

[Marty Grass]

I don't know which pickups Johnny used earlier in his career for each recording. I do know what he played in the 1960s, at least for the most part. That was his Gibson. He must have liked that pickup enough to use it. One of Johnny's students turned friend and co-performer still has one of the gigging guitars and lives near me. He knows Johnny put uncountable hours on his Gibsons.

Johnny's early recordings were made with different recording and amplification equipment, often on his D'Angelico. He also sanded his strings. It doesn't follow that you will capture that sound simply by using the pickup he used. After all, he is Johnny Smith.

The other thing to note is that after Johnny broke up with Gibson, his signature guitar was a Heritage. That pickup was built by Ken Rambow. Johnny could have specified something else, but he didn't. Ken could have built the pickup as a single coil, or Heritage could have chosen any other pickup that Johnny wanted. Then Guild and Benedetto combined forces on the last JS model. That one had the Benedetto pickup. Johnny agreed with that choice.

The last recording I know of was acoustic. Johnny Smith - Albums on Other Labels That is simply a masterpiece I will never tire of hearing.

I recently installed a 1100 on an archtop because I do like the sound. I'm afraid I don't sound like Johnny though!

[ruger9]

The guitar pictured on the album cover is not necessarily the guitar used to make the recordings, and multiple guitars might even have been used. I have no insight into Johnny Smith's recordings, but I would not bet the farm on the pictured guitar ever having been played on any recording.

Here's a perfect example of that! The cover photo is not the right guitar OR PLAYER lol

[sgcim]

I don't know which pickups Johnny used earlier in his career for each recording. I do know what he played in the 1960s, at least for the most part. That was his Gibson. He must have liked that pickup enough to use it. One of Johnny's students turned friend and co-performer still has one of the gigging guitars and lives near me. He knows Johnny put uncountable hours on his Gibsons.

Johnny's early recordings were made with different recording and amplification equipment, often on his D'Angelico. He also sanded his strings. It doesn't follow that you will capture that sound simply by using the pickup he used. After all, he is Johnny Smith.

The other thing to note is that after Johnny broke up with Gibson, his signature guitar was a Heritage. That pickup was built by Ken Rambow. Johnny could have specified something else, but he didn't. Ken could have built the pickup as a single coil, or Heritage could have chosen any other pickup that Johnny wanted. Then Guild and Benedetto combined forces on the last JS model. That one had the Benedetto pickup. Johnny agreed with that choice.

The last recording I know of was acoustic. Johnny Smith - Albums on Other Labels That is simply a masterpiece I will never tire of hearing.

I recently installed a 1100 on an archtop because I do like the sound. I'm afraid I don't sound like Johnny though!

I did a lot of searching online, and one guy who took lessons with him said he used the RC-1000 when he studied with him, but that was probably in Colorado.
As you said, there were a lot of variables in the Roost recordings. He used Ampegs with tubes, because he didn't like the new solid state amps they were making. He used different guitars on different records. My personal faves were the two Foursome albums, after which he seriously damaged his finger in an airplane mishap.
The Gibson JS pickup and the JS guitar are fantastic also. I heard a kid with a D'Aquisto and a JS pickup once. He couldn't play, but he sounded fantastic with that combination.
But the ancient (by now) topic was the original DeArmond pickups, and my only answer is to listen to the JS and Kenny Burrell LPs that used them (and DAs), and that should be enough of an answer to the OP.

[wintermoon]

He's pictured w a Johnny Smith on the Verve lps but who knows what he used.
It's interesting to note he was still using a DA late in his career but w a Smith pickup

[floatingpickup]

This photo of Johnny with his D’A has been posted on this forum before. You can’t see the pickup, but the control box is clearly the volume/tone version that came with the RC1000 and RC1100. I wouldn’t be at all surprised though if he used FHC/Guitar Mike’s at various times as well. All three versions of De’Armond pickups were often added to D’Angelicos in those days. They are all fantastic sounding pickups. If you look closely, you can also see Johnny’s amp in front of him, aiming at the ceiling!
Keith

[Ukena]

That Legends recording of JS playing I'm Old Fashioned is amazingly beautiful, and sounds like it's strikingly difficult to play.

I stumbled upon this young fellow's cover, which is very impressive. It looks like he has a DeArmond-like pickup on his Gibson.

[RJVB]

That sounds a lot like classical guitar repertoire, in fact.

[Ukena]

That sounds a lot like classical guitar repertoire, in fact.

...but played with a pick...

[Woody Sound]

I had a couple of them, the red one and the one with the pole pieces. I'd call it a round, full, clear defined sound, if that makes any sense.

[pingu]

That Legends recording of JS playing I'm Old Fashioned is amazingly beautiful, and sounds like it's strikingly difficult to play.

I stumbled upon this young fellow's cover, which is very impressive. It looks like he has a DeArmond-like pickup on his Gibson.

that’s stunningly good ....

[floatingpickup]

that’s stunningly good ....

I searched out some of his other YouTube videos and they are all amazing. Wow.
Keith