Acoustic Archtop Options

[AllanAllen]

I have a G400C. It's a nice playing, nice sounding instrument.

How far are the strings from the body? The Gretsch's I've played felt more like a solidbody or flattop than an archtop.

[mr. beaumont]

The Gretsch archtop he's talking about is a lot different than their hollow body electrics, but if I had the scratch, I'd be all over the K-zoo Hammertone posted.

I guess more importantly, what's your plans for this guitar? Chunking out rhythm? Playing solo pieces? Using it as an all purpose acoustic guitar?

[AllanAllen]

The Gretsch archtop he's talking about is a lot different than their hollow body electrics, but if I had the scratch, I'd be all over the K-zoo Hammertone posted.

I guess more importantly, what's your plans for this guitar? Chunking out rhythm? Playing solo pieces? Using it as an all purpose acoustic guitar?

I found a big band in Indiana (Cal Ridge Jazz Ensemble), hopefully they keep asking me back and I can play with them, eventually switching to full acoustic.

That's the business reason to buy it. I'd also just like a bang around the house guitar, which is why I'm hesitant to buy an 80 year old survivor like the Kalamazoo. Just to have the dogs knock it over.

[pcjazz]

I found a big band in Indiana (Cal Ridge Jazz Ensemble), hopefully they keep asking me back and I can play with them, eventually switching to full acoustic.

Unless that band has unamplified acoustic bass, unamplified acoustic piano and a drummer with a light touch on skin heads and small cymbals you are not going to be happy playing unamplified acoustic guitar.

[AllanAllen]

Unless that band has unamplified acoustic bass, unamplified acoustic piano and a drummer with a light touch on skin heads and small cymbals you are not going to be happy playing unamplified acoustic guitar.

That's a fair point. Right now I've only been to 1 rehearsal, so I there's a bit of daydreaming too. I won't know if I need less until I'm in it for a while.

[mr. beaumont]

Yeah, the days of playing acoustic in a big band are probably over. Everybody plays so loud...and then of course, you that day you go all acoustic the band leader's gonna point at you for a solo.

I know I'm Mr. acoustic rhythm guy, but my hopes for learning that style and eventually using it float in the realm of a small combo, probably without drums. I'd be the drums.

But a Loar and a floating pickup...now that'd be a cool rig.

[AllanAllen]

There's somebody here, on the forum, who does it. I was just going to show up with an acoustic at a rehearsal and bang away the pulse.

[pawlowski6132]

Unless that band has unamplified acoustic bass, unamplified acoustic piano and a drummer with a light touch on skin heads and small cymbals you are not going to be happy playing unamplified acoustic guitar.

I don't think he said unamplified. He just said acoustic.

My friends play out and use DPA 4099 microphones.

Also depends on role, size of the band and the size of the venue.

If you are acting more like a drummer; by all means, just chunk away.

If you are acting more like a pianist, mic up to hear your beautiful accompaniment.

[pcjazz]

I don't think he said unamplified. He just said acoustic.

He said “full acoustic” which I take to mean unamplified.

My friends play out and use DPA 4099 microphones.

This is a possibility (and I have done the same) but while it can work very well in a small group, especially without drums, it is less satisfactory in a full big band with modern drums and electric bass/piano.

Also depends on role, size of the band and the size of the venue.

Agreed — and the OP was talking about big band. So was I.

[pawlowski6132]

He said “full acoustic” which I take to mean unamplified.



This is a possibility (and I have done the same) but while it can work very well in a small group, especially without drums, it is less satisfactory in a full big band with modern drums and electric bass/piano.



Agreed — and the OP was talking about big band. So was I.

Funny how we interpret. When I hear "full acoustic" i think, non built-in pickup and thus different construction specifically in top.

Curious why you think the mic attached to the body wouldn't work with a full big band?

[Webby]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Playing an acoustic archtop in a Big Band can be done, even if your Drummer plays a modern kit. That's not arguing the fact, that period correct gear works better, but saying it doesn't work is just wrong.
Still I always have a lavalier mic with me for those Jobs, but in my opinion that has more to do with the acoustics of the venue. I've been using a cheap DPA-Clone by t.bone (the Thomann house-brand), and never had any problems with that setup.

Depending on where you live a vintage Höfner/Hoyer etc. might be available. Here in germany they can be often found relatively cheap, and I used to play one for quite a while. It definetly got the job done (and i played a hole lot of unamplified big band gigs with it!).

I have upgraded to an Eastman since, which also might pop up within your budget.

I want to encourage you to explore the acoustic rhythm thing in a Band setting! I found it totally rewarding, and don't let anyone tell you that it won't work.

Paul

[omphalopsychos]

Epiphone Triumph is by far the best option for your budget. Eastman is good quality but bright. Loars have a hideous midrange bark that just sounds cheap, not vintage.

[omphalopsychos]

One of the best sounding archtops I’ve ever played was a 50s Epiphone triumph. Not joking.

[pcjazz]

Curious why you think the mic attached to the body wouldn't work with a full big band?

Hard to control feedback from other amplified instruments especially at solo-level volume.

[RJVB]

My seagull flat top has always been easy on the left hand but I had an under saddle piezo fitted and a new saddle and the neck re set. It's perfect now. Was it worth it moneywise? Probably not.

Neck was fine on mine (bought her new) and after a set-up she was very easy on the left hand too. I just couldn't play (fingerstyle, purely acoustic) without buzz so I had to crank up the relief and eventually got a higher saddle.
Fortunately I didn't spend too much money on her, in the end I learned that I don't really like big flattops for my kind of playing. I'm more and more convinced that archtops somehow combine the best of both worlds: they're direct/immediate/transparent with nice trebles like a small-body guitar but have the power and (can) have the deep basses of a big-body flattop.

EDIT: come to think of it, the neck on the Seagull was also really thin. I have quite large hands and find that I need a bit more wood between my fingers when playing physically more demanding things.

[pawlowski6132]

One of the best sounding archtops I’ve ever played was a 50s Epiphone triumph. Not joking.

I have a '35 Triumph that I really enjoy. It's not too loud but bass is a little underwhelming.

[pawlowski6132]

Hard to control feedback from other amplified instruments especially at solo-level volume.

Ahh. Makes sense.

[mr. beaumont]

One of the best sounding archtops I’ve ever played was a 50s Epiphone triumph. Not joking.

Old Epiphones just plain have IT.

Re: playing acoustic with a big band...

Webby's situation is a little different though...he can pull it off because this is a very GOOD band playing in GOOD rooms.

All acoustic at the usual community center type big band is going to be tough to pull off. I won't say impossible, but there's a lot of things that need to be done correctly for it to work.

[Christian Miller]

The dream of acoustic archtop guitar is imo a recipe for heartache.

Get an Eastman with a floater. Turn it up only as much as you need and no more….

I mean some people do it… I think they are blessed with patience and lots of money.

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[RJVB]

Loars have a hideous midrange bark that just sounds cheap, not vintage.

Mine definitely doesn't but then I don't try to make her bark at all.

All acoustic at the usual community center type big band is going to be tough to pull off. I won't say impossible, but there's a lot of things that need to be done correctly for it to work.

But isn't the goal of anything community-centre related simply to have fun (and in practise probably more so the band members than whoever comes to listen)? Idem for the noodling around the house aspect that plays here too from what I read.

I'm guessing Allan already has an e-archtop so he could do what Jonathan Stout also seems to do: change to that instrument for playing a solo where you have to be heard more distinctly than "you'll notice when I stop playing".

[mr. beaumont]

Mine definitely doesn't but then I don't try to make her bark at all.



But isn't the goal of anything community-centre related simply to have fun (and in practise probably more so the band members than whoever comes to listen)? Idem for the noodling around the house aspect that plays here too from what I read.

I'm guessing Allan already has an e-archtop so he could do what Jonathan Stout also seems to do: change to that instrument for playing a solo where you have to be heard more distinctly than "you'll notice when I stop playing".

Oh I'm certainly not saying it can't be fun. I'm saying that with a professional band, you're more likely to have players who understand dynamics and don't compete for space, more likely to have a leader who understands the guitar's different roles, more likely to be playing places with good acoustics, etc...

This is also not an absolute...there's some very unprofessional professionals out there..but I mean, have you heard Webby's clips? His band is SMOKING GOOD.

[RJVB]

Oh I'm certainly not saying it can't be fun. I'm saying that with a professional band, you're more likely to have players who understand dynamics and don't compete for space, more likely to have a leader who understands the guitar's different roles, more likely to be playing places with good acoustics, etc...

lol, you have more open doors to kick in while you're at it?

Here's one of mine I've had a lot of time to reflect on as a former semi-pro violinist: There's a reverse to the "smokin' good pros" medal: it can't always be fun to have to play the same repertoire day in day out, and I'm not sure if what little room exists in big bands for improvisation can really compensate for that.

Getting to play for dancers must be a real reward though (unless they're part of your act and thus also always do the same thing )

[mr. beaumont]

I really don't think I'm kicking doors in...

[ThatRhythmMan]

If you’re looking to try the acoustic with a big band thing, this ‘43 Blackstone has all the required elements. It has the volume and correct tonal spectrum. I love those old Gibson made other branded guitars, but there are only certain ones that can do what a vintage Epiphone can do in a band setting, and there is nothing modern that’s factory made that can equal the old Epis.


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[SierraTango]

I've played in a local Big Band with my 53 Epiphone Triumph Regent. The Sound guy just put a SM 57 in front of it on the right side of the music stand. I worked a charm, however I did bring my Pisano 880 as backup-it never left the case. I will add that there was no guitar solos, it was just Rhythm four on the floor.
To the OP, if you can possibly get a hold of a 40-50's Epiphone without breaking the bank, IMHO that's the sound you are looking for.