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I'm in the market for a good jazz guitar and I've been thinking of a Gibson L-4 or ES-175.
The thing is, I haven't played any of the two.
I currently play an Ibanez AS93 (similar to Dot 335). I have also read that the depth of both bodies are the same and I'm looking for something a little shallower.
Your knowledge of these guitars wiil be highly appreciated.
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ES-175D ((He know the picking place for mellow tone of 175)
L-4 CES (Quite mellow, even his picking place)
Last edited by kawa; 05-13-2010 at 09:15 PM.
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Hi,
I own a 1956 L4C. These guitars are similar to the ES175 but with a carved spruce top instead of the laminated top. The back and sides are laminated mahogany and the neck is maple with a rosewood fingerboard. The original L4's were acoustic but mine has a floating Johnny Smith PU. For some reason, these guitars are undervalued and can still be bought at relatively reasonable prices.
The L4CES is a more recent guitar and is also a carved spruce top ES175 with L5 appointments.
I have owned 2 ES175's and loved them, but my L4C remains my favorite guitar.
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As a former owner of a '66 L4C with a floating pickup, might I suggest you look into a Heritage Sweet 16?
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L-4 CES
ES-175D
You can ceck by any guitar's good sound demos on the Web.
Search the demos as well as non or touch of reverb and good place picking, there are many of high positions pickings or too mutch reverbs.
Last edited by kawa; 05-13-2010 at 09:45 PM.
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There are a few variations of the L-4CES over the years. Although all have carved spruce tops, the side, back and neck materials may be mahogany or maple laminates (solid wood for the neck). My L-4 is one of the maple side/back configurations with a mahogany neck.
It's a very nice guitar but, looking back on the purchase, I might have been better served with the ES-175 since I already have a couple of carved spruce guitars. The ES-175 would have been $500 - $1000 less than the L-4CES. But I'm a sucker for natural finish guitars so the L-4CES was almost irresistable.
Here's a photo of the L-4, the L-5 and a Heritage H-575:
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You might check out L4 players like Joe Diorio on youtube. 175 players are ubiquitous. I test drove a 175 and L4 side by side a few years ago, when I was shopping. the L4 in question had some minor quality control issues, but sounded and played very nice. It was noticably brighter, and created feedback easier than the 175, which is to be expected with a solid top.
Fine guitar, but I wound up going with a 175, as I like the darker tone. Be sure and play each and let your ears and hands decide which is best for you. Happy hunting.
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Todays L4 CES have a carved spruce top and carved solid mahogany back and rims. No plywood here.
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Really? When did that change happen?
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Yes, I was also surprised by Drifter's comments but here's what Gibson has to say about the L-4CES:
Body
Today’s gorgeous L-4 CES six-strings still adhere to the classic design of their namesakes. They have a solid carved spruce top and a carved solid mahogany back and rims. They are a comfortable 16-inches wide, 20-inches long, and 3 3/8th-inches deep and come in wine red, natural, and vintage sunburst finishes with multi-ply white or black binding on top, with single ply white binding on their backs.
This must be a fairly recent revision and I'm baffled by it. One would think the price would have increased dramatically !!
PS: They are also factory PLEKed
Last edited by randyc; 05-13-2010 at 02:29 PM.
Reason: add PS
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My Black L4 is a beautiful guitar and has a rich, creamy sound. The neck pick-up is placed further from the bridge than a 175 which together with a solid top gives a slightly more resonant sound. I have a 1956 175 with a P90. For some reason it is a lot louder acoustically than the L4 with a beautiful amplified sound, but for some reason does not cut through a mix nearly so well.
However, I love them both.
If you do go for a 175, try before you buy. They do vary a lot depending upon when they were made. The custom shop ones are quite good, but more expensive.
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I'm sorry, I don't know when they changed that. I only recently started dreaming about a L4 and took a look what wood it's made of. I didn't even know it had a laminated back and rims before. I wonder why the black finish isn't mentioned on the Gibson website.
By the way, karthi, the L4 seems to hold its value better than the 175. Just in case you're thinking about resale value.
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Changed to carved mahogany back and sides in 2006.
My 2007 L-4 CES is made this way.
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I think my L-4 is black because it is a Custom Shop Model.
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All L-4 CES of recent years are Custom Shop, including current production.
Black must be from previous years and no longer in marketing publications.
Got any pics? I'll bet she's beautiful.
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This is my first post. I joined this forum to see what people are saying about the LCES. I just bought a natural finish L4 CES Prototype built in 1986. By the looks it has a carved spruce top and carved Mahogany back. I think these (top & back) are solid but I'm not so sure about the sides. I am a long standing acoustic guitar player with some beautiful instruments and have never owned an electric guitar. Needless to say I am in love with this one.
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Well mine is a bit more recent - 2003 - and is black. It has a spruce top with solid maple sides and back. It is curious as the acoustic sound is quite bright but the electric sound is very creamy. In fact it has become my main guitar. It records better than either my 1956 175 or my Heritage 575.
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If someone (like me) already has a wonderful Gibson L4-CES, would it be redundant to get an ES-175. I know there are construction differences and pickup placement. For those that own both, do you find you get uniquely different voices from the two guitars. Many L4CES owners brag they can get that ES175 sound out of their L4CES guitars, but many swear by the sound of an ES-175.
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having owned both at the same time, put me in the '175 camp. It's got a voice unique to itself, IME.
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I have an L4-CES and a lawsuit 175 ('78 Aria Pro II, EA-650 with mahog. neck).
The L4-CES sound is kind of a mix between an L5 and a 175...the L4-CES upper end is "creamier" and smoother, esp. with the ebony neck, than a 175. It's more towards the sound of even B.B. King's 355, if you know what I mean. The bass response is more textured, and deeper I think, than an 175, but not as deep as an L5. I think the L4 has a lot of sounds in it, and is pretty versatile. (I haven't changed the strings on mine in about a yr. and it seems to sound more 175-like with deader strings, if that makes sense.)
A 175 treble voice sounds "silvery" to me...hard to describe, but it is clear and a little sweeter, and the overall sound is drier, because of the laminated top with more tonal, and volume compression. I think 175's sound great at a certain "volume sweet spot", when everything is in balance, but can sound a little muffled at low volumes, and boomy at high volumes.
I think you'd really have to A/B one against the other to decide for yourself.
(My Aria sounds really good....maybe slightly too boomy on the bass...its actually thicker, slightly, than a real 175. Someday I'll take a ride over to NJ to the big shop in Summit with all the archtops to A/B and see what, if anything, I'm missing. I think 175's vary a lot from instrument to instrument.)
Last edited by goldenwave77; 10-15-2017 at 01:23 PM.
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ES-175 usually doesn't have much of an acoustic sound compared to that of a L-4CES Also there are variations of both of these instruments using differen laminates, as well a solid woods for backs, sides, necks, some electric others acoustic. So you really need to find the model and year build you want.
Eastman makes a John Pisano ES-175 type of guitar that I think looks great , but haven't tried one.
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I have owned both and still have a 175. If you are asking about a mahogany L4 which is what I had, I can tell you that to my ears the primary difference was in the sound of the attack. A 175 has a sharper, more articulate attack and a mahogany L4 seems to have a softer, rounder attack, at least for my picking style. Of course, YMMV. Both are great. The L4 is one guitar that I regret selling.
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Rhoadscholar, Great topic. I've been wondering this myself. I don't own an L4, but I wish to someday.
I get the feeling based on what I've read, that L4CES with the mahogany back is a lot different than the maple version. And its sound makes it more than just a 175 dressed up in L5 threads.
I am really anxious to hear what people have to say about this.
One day I will do my own comparison of these 2 great guitars.
Joe D.
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The L4 CES is a more 'substantial' guitar physically. I've played a bunch of them, and every time it felt like I had more substance in my hands. Translating the obvious physical differences (e.g., ebony, frets, bridge, tailpiece, carved vs. plywood top and/or back, finish, etc.) into distinct sound characteristics, I think they've been smoother playing, looked and felt more refined. Kind of like Grey Poupon vs some other mustard on your bratwurst, if you know what I mean. I happen to love my 175's, and never felt the need to buy an L4 CES. I liked playing them, but the 175 filled the niche for me.
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I played both of them side by side, 175 is more nasal and harder tone. The L-4 is sweeter and rounder. Also 175 is more electric sound to me. I think tjat maybe you can achive a 175ish sound in you L4 blending a littlw bit the two microphones witj thw neck pup louder than the bridge one.
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