-
So true that I can't say much more
Originally Posted by Little Jay
My home-made 5F1 is now my practice and rehearsal amp
-
05-31-2023 03:30 PM
-
Didn't Julian Lage gig with a Tweed Champ for a while?
-
Originally Posted by st.bede
The big old Hiwatts are A/B, their newer and smaller amps are Class A. I have a seven-watt Custom which is Class A. I think it has a Baxandall tone stack as well – no mid control. In any case, it makes a very different sound to my Princeton Reverb II.
-
These motorcycle discussions here are way above me. Very limited experience! When I was 16-17 I rented Honda 50’s to joyride around town. A friend let me drive his Triumph a few blocks and that was enough. For awhile in the mid-80’s my wife owned a Honda Spree that she enjoyed. Were I to get a two wheeled motorized thing today it would be a Vespa-like thing.
More seriously, a good friend has been doing an event called “Distinguished Gentleman’s Ride”. This is a global thing. It is a fund raiser for prostate cancer research and men’s mental health. A very good cause. He and I both had prostate cancer. We played in the same local group in the mid to late 60’s.
Tom
-
Yes he did. This is posted in another thread and I really enjoyed the whole thing. Check around 1:04:30 to hear him talking about his Champ. It's cool. Back it up a bit if you want to hear all 3 talking about amps. Quilter comes out of it rather well. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
-
I love 5 watt Champs for their dynamics and tone, but do not care for their limitations due to packaging. I own a few versions of this little beast ('70 Vibro Champ; 57 Custom Champ reissue; and two Gibson GA5 Reissues). Each has its unique sound, dynamics and quirks. All sound great at low, bedroom volumes. None can complete in a band situation unless miked and monitored by a pro sound reinforcement person and system.
That said, my all time favorite sounds came from an accidental connection to an old 1960's era Epi/Gibson 2x10 ext. speaker cab. (10" CTS AlNico's). Suddenly the '70 Vibro Champ woke up and sounded fantastic! Of course, connecting a reverb, overdrive and EQ pedal added to the fun.
Bottom line? Since you're dealing with a tube amp, experiment with pedals, speakers and tubes. Everything is going to have an impact on the tone, volume and dynamics of a 5 watt Champ-style amp. Finally, if the 5 watt Champ is your thing, the last option is to consider a '68 Custom Vibro Champ Reverb or a Tone Master Princeton that has a built in attenuator.
Have fun!
-
I'm no tech, but my understanding is that all single ended amps are class A, and practically all push-pull amps with only a few exotic exceptions are class AB1. Class A means all output devices are fully powered for the entire amplification cycle. A Class A push pull amp would have much less power than you would expect for the tube or transistor set. Originally Posted by st.bede
I don't think Matchless ever built a class A push-pull amp, dubious marketing hype aside.
Negative feedback doesn't change operating class; most push pull amps use it, but tweed Fenders and earlier Vox designs use little or none of it, which is why they are great for distortion. It increases headroom by mixing in a small amount of phase inverted output back to the input, so that the louder the amp, the more cancellation occurs, with a tradeoff of less volume and a more sudden, late, and unpleasant onset of distortion. It is present, as a rule, in any kind of modern hi fi or PA amp, and surely in clean oriented guitar and bass amps. The gain/volume controls in studio mic preamps are often actually negative feedback controls (when they aren't input or output attenuators).
I like Champs and similar small single ended combos, but for my daily driver I really need a 12" speaker. A single 6V6 amp into a 12" is a good compromise.
-
This was recorded on my 5F1 Champ with 10” P10R:
-
I liked what Julian said about gigging the champ in the clip. Paraphrase: "I just plop this little box down, plug in, and that's it. Like a tenor player. Here's me, my sound, and how loud it is. It's up to somebody else to make it work in the mix."
Granted, he's gigging on a different level than most of us. And he does say in there he's not really using it currently and feels a bit guilty about that.
I dug the reference to the horn. They don't have to think about stuff like clean head-room for eg.
-
I thought that hollow body looked familiar! Xian, never came good on that 330 build for me eh Originally Posted by Little Jay
-
For home use playing jazz guitar I would get a Princeton over a Champ. The reverb is awesome. More headroom too. More controls. Sounds great.
-
This turns every amp into a Princeton (Reverb): Originally Posted by JazzIsGood
(Really love it!)
-
I don’t think his situation is unlike most pros. Touring with borrowed backline etc. but pro venues (clubs, theatres etc) and festivals all have PA and monitors. Originally Posted by ccroft
tbf he does enjoy a brighter, broken up sound than most traditional jazz guys. He also plays dry. So the, champ suits him better than a prri for example. (Or maybe the tenor concept came first and the sound followed.) He plays with a massive picking dynamic range and so when he comes up to the top of the champs range it’s got that lovely crunch but can play crystal clean by changing his touch. I didn’t see him mess with his volume controls all night.
Which I suppose is the point of playing a tube amp for blues players, and the small amp allows him to do it in a way which isn’t obnoxious on stage and engineer friendly. The tenor comparison makes sense.
As a related issue, i think the thing that might be hardest for a guitarist is if they are used to hearing their playing really well. I think we are more able to hear our sound than say, a trumpet player, which makes us a bit addicted to it (I speak for myself) - but playing live it’s good to let go of that a bit and bear in mind the sound is for the audience.
I think playing acoustic helps with that realisation. Notably, Julian was gigging on an acoustic L5 for a while.Last edited by Christian Miller; 06-03-2023 at 04:59 AM.
-
What amp do you use with it? I have thinking of getting a pedal to use with my super bland Polytone MinBrute that I use as a last resort when it's not a good idea to bring a real tube amp. Is it reverb only or does it lend any other character to the sound?
Originally Posted by Little Jay
This turns every amp into a Princeton (Reverb):
(Really love it!)
-
If you are going modeling, or an AITB approach, there is a bunch of choices.
The only way I have had luck with AITB stuff, is because I own a handful of types/options. If one does not work with a particular amp and guitar combination, I try another pedal. Catalinbtead, Wampler, and the company that makes the red snapper and dirty blonde, have some great pedals. I am not a fan of Lovepedals, but the Amp11 has been pretty useful.
-
Me too! My favourite reverb pedal by far! Originally Posted by Little Jay
This turns every amp into a Princeton (Reverb):
(Really love it!)
-
It’s just a reverb pedal. Perhaps it colours the sound slightly in a good way, because I find most other reverbs too bright and hissy. This does make the sound fuller somehow. Probably also because the pedal has a tone knob, that I always roll off. Originally Posted by JazzIsGood
I use it with my non-reverb amps (5F1, Framus Strato 345). It does sound better than the on-board reverb of my Fender Blues Deluxe (which is not tube driven btw) and the short spring reverb in my Session BluesBaby 22. Oh and I always use it on my AER Alpha because the digital reverb in there doesn’t please me for guitar.
-
The video of Julian Lage using the champ live is pretty close to my experience gigging champs. Your drummer has to be extra low dynamics (better if it's a drumless gig), and the sound is great if it's a blues sound. It's way broken even for a Scofield of Grant Green type of sound. You can use it for jazz, but it's not ideal, and it's pretty limiting.
Now, if you're going for a Santana type of sound, or even a rock or rock n roll sound, champs are paradise live. And they work great for home playing, but for jazz everything does. I never understood why home clean players prefer smaller amps to greater ones.
-
Alter has a point…. At home I play all my amps for a great clean jazz sound at low volume, even my Twin Reverb, which sounds great at 1 on the dial (never understood this “has to be played loud to sound good” thing, perhaps that only applies to overdriven sounds?).
That being said, the 5F1 has something very pleasing going on in the mid and upper mid frequencies that is hard to dial in on my other amps (my 60ies Framus Strato 345 amp comes close).
But I can’t gig with the 5F1, my bands are too loud for it to stay clean, and I need a clean sound for my thing.
-
Some amps just can't hit their sweet spots at a usable home volume. For instance, my Princeton Reverb goes from basically no sound with the knob just past 1 to too loud if others are home on just over 2 (which is just where the tone goodies start to kick in). So I tend to play my smaller amps at home because they have more adjustability (within a smaller overall volume range), unless no one's home (in which case, I'll go for Princeton goodies). I can get a decent sound out of my MicroCube that won't be heard in the next room through a closed door. Not so with the PR (though maybe one with a different taper on the volume pot would be different) As far as using a champ-like amp on a gig goes, I agree that whether that will work depends on the gig. In most cases, it won't stay clean enough for classic jazz tones. Originally Posted by Alter
-
My experience with master volume tube amps, is that on really low settings, things can be clean but thin.
Much of my life I have spent living with that sound. Pedals can make it livable.
However, I much rather have clean and warm, or even clean with a touch if harmonic breakup. Once again pedals can help.
I typically use pedals in place of turning an amp up.
I find od/dirt pedals that have a clean blend to be very useful.
-
I have a '78 Vibro Champ with the tone stack mod (turns it into a tweed champ)
I have also owned the Fender Custom Champ and Victoria Amps version of a champ (512) and Victoria's version of a Harvard (Ivy League)
All were great and with an EP Booster could function with a courteous drummer in a small room. All made made great bedroom amps.
I now own Headstrong Santa Cruz 5 which has onboard reverb and it makes a great bedroom amp as well a grab and go. I need reverb.
Reply With Quote
Help me find Rattle on archtop
Today, 05:39 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos