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This is curious. This 2007 LeGrand arrived Saturday, mint, except for these two spots. I trust the store's summary of pre-shipment check, and accepted a generous credit, given the surprise. Any ideas on what this is, a sort of purple-ink band in the 2nd pic. I don't think the heat enroute was a factor, even to S. Florida.
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05-29-2023 10:47 PM
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Well, that is a common problem. Case liner dye getting into the binding, or at least that’s what it appears to be.
It could be old or new. It could likely have happened within the first few weeks after the guitar was finished.
Firstly, use a cotton sheet around the guitar when it’s in the case from now on. Secondly, see if you have a local tech who can fix it without making things worse. Been there, done that. Sorry brother. Send me a PM if you like.
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My ES-175 had marks similar to that. I was able to sand and rub out, but be prepared to respray clear if it gets out of hand.
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I agree with JJ4E. Is the color on the binding the same color as that of the lining of the case? If so, what's happening is that the dye in the case lining fabric is sublimating into the finish of the guitar; it's probably also happening all the way across the finish, but it's most visible on the white binding. There are a few case brands and/or lining colors where this seems to be more prevalent.
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Yeah, it's the case, same thing happened to me in one occasion.. I ended up changing cases.
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Like it has been already said, it’s probably the case. I remember back then people had this problem with cedar creek cases which would dye the bindings of beautiful archtop guitars like super 400‘s and L5‘s.
When i bought my Guild X500 from the 70‘s it came with a case that looked all terrible and smelled bad. But because i heard of those incidents, i purposefully searched for a case with no color inside. I went with Hiscox which are grey on the inside.
I would try naphtha on it, pretty sure that it will take the coloring right off.
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Nothing will remove the staining. It leeches through the lacquer.
Only repair would be to scrape the binding and reshoot with lacquer.
Tom has had bad luck with cases.
I bought a new blonde Super 400 that was turned green by a Cedar Creek case.
I just bought a 2009 S400 that also has CC case stains on the binding. It’s not as noticeable because it is VSB not blonde.
My Campellone Special started staining also with a CC case but I caught it early and replaced the case.
Tom - Mark Campellone told me it is a easy repair to scrape and refinish the binding.
I have not seen a lot of staining with TKL cases but sure have seen a lot with CC cases. Case lining should be white or a light tan IMO.
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A white lining is prone to getting dirty, I've seen some old ones that don't look very attractive as a result and I'm not crazy about tan, that was Gibsons lower line case lining back in the day, though they were kind of a flannel material, tan plush might be nice w a brown case.
There was never an issue w dye bleed back then unless a case got wet and was neglected. I like the top line pink, though other colors are nice as well. And I guess Gibson was attempting to get fancy w those silly case shrouds w their ugly brown tolex cases and lousy squishy handles w "Gibson USA" plastered on the lid, they might be the cheesiest cases ever and just scream "Steal Me" (though I think they finally ditched those) I own one modern Gibson w that case and I don't know whether to cringe or laugh whenever I look at it.
But it's not rocket science, just get it right case companies!
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So, Naphtha would be a waste of effort? Deacon Mark mentioned the same a while back. How does the case bleeding hit that first pic, though, a part of the guitar that is not in direct contact with the lining?
Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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This kind of stuff would drive me nuts.
Nowadays, I'd ask for a bit of a refund. If it's a good player, I'd not press the issue.
I don't know why guitars come with white binding. It's tempting fate. It's like eating spaghetti in a starched white shirt with a white tie.
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It is a good player, and otherwise mint, but still not coming around to the single floating pickup tone-especially alongside the L5CES. The refund was substantial, at least. Jimmy Wallace Guitars provided the choice to return it for a full refund. Just inform the buyer beforehand! This is not something that happened en route between Texas and Florida. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
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I'm puzzled also as to how the binding in the cutaway area could've become discolored - that's a real head-scratcher - Originally Posted by tomvwash
I did have one incidence of case stain where I was able to remove the discoloration by just light sanding (and re-buffing) - but I assume because the reaction had just started and was only affecting the outermost surface of the lacquer. Longer exposure means deeper penetration and in that case, the only solution would be scrape and re-finish the binding -
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It's good to know I'm not the only one who struggles with spaghetti and white shirts. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
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I used to work with some people who had Asperger's syndrome. They would focus on details a lot. Then I realized I'm not fully immune myself. But the woods on the guitar are beautiful. It's too bad that the binding staining detracts. Some of my colleagues would say the opposite: it draws attention to the wood.
Who knows?
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Maybe from the “shroud” in the case (assuming it has one, as is typical with Gibson)? Originally Posted by MCampellone
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Mark, You know, I was thinking the same exact thing when I saw this originally. Not seeing how "fluffy" the material inside the case was, makes it hard to diagnose how this could have happened. It is bizarre though.. Originally Posted by MCampellone
To be honest, this really wouldnt bother me much. I've mellowed a bit, I think mainly because I only buy used, so I cant expect perfection.
Before I close the case for the last time, I think another Gibson Archtop with a floater is in my future. I miss my Johnny alot lately. Maybe a Legrand is a good choice. However, pricing has gotten out of control. So, maybe I will just be happy with what I got.
JD
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The binding discoloration is nothing to me at all. In fact, the worst part of it is that if I was selling a guitar, it would just be a worry someone would find some little spec thing wrong with it. I am of the school that says unless you buy a guitar brand new from a maker, you should expect something to not line up. In my book while this may not look perfect, no one cares really, and you can only see it up close. It is way below even a "minor flesh wound" to quote Monty Python. Seems all the guitars I like I have to check for cracks in the top, back, neck, and all the stuff. This one has bit of coloration on the binding the is not perfectly clean.
I am not coming down on Tom who I know, about the guitar and his experience at all. He seems to know what he was looking for and so this has nothing to do with that. I just bring with up because selling guitars to some folks can be a real wakeup call about what players expect. It is like the person who comes in for a set up on the guitar and says "I like the action really, really low, I want the guitar play like butter and have absolutely no buzzes." Those players worry me because really at some point with super low action the strings can buzz.
I have a Legrand and for the right price be glad to take one like this, but naturally the right price.
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Thank you for the insight and perspective, Joe. Both you and Deacon Mark are right on this one! Originally Posted by Max405
Tom
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Originally Posted by Marty Grass
I agree MG - it would bother me too, and mostly I think because it didn't come from anyone playing it. It came from something preventable, meaning don't put that high-buck guitar any place where a certain color dye will stain the binding. And it's not like the word hasn't been out on this for a while.
( Remember when some of us found out the hard way that some guitar hangers and some floor stands also leave stains on bindings ? )....
I would at some point try to find a definitive method to at least lighten the stain, provided of course I can locate a luthier who is still ' accepting patients. '
Good luck !
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I have never seen a Gibson TKL case with the burgundy lining bleed like this one.
In fact when my Campellone Special started staining I replaced the CC case with a Gibson L5 case with the burgundy lining. No bleed.
I suspect the staining on the cutaway area was caused by the guitar being subjected to heat and high humidity and the lacquer sucked up the dye like a sponge from the binding edges even though no direct contact to the cutaway area. This is the 1st Gibson TKL case / burgundy staining I’ve seen. I have seen staining with the brown 90’s Gibson cases with the pink fuzzy lining but very few.
I have seen used Campellone’s on the market and you can see binding stains from CC cases on some of them. I am glad Mark doesn’t use them anymore. The last Campellone I bought has a TKL case and no stains at all.
Tom sorry this happened again. When my new blonde S400 got all stained green I got so upset I sold it. Now I deeply regret selling it.
It was a fantastic guitar with stunning woods. Big mistake. Wish I could get it back. Being anal can be a blessing and a curse.
Mark Campellone being anal is a good thing. When you get a ding in your guitar and get all upset then being anal is a bad thing.
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Vinny, I think you are on to something with the heat factor in the cutaway area, and that could be during enroute shipping from TX to FL. I somehow sensed the J. Wallace Guitars was in in earnest when they claimed....we didn't realize. And maybe the same factor applies for the other area. I purchased a custom Les Paul from Willie's guitars months ago, and it arrived with the same cutaway staining, black, purple smudges in that pocket. They too claimed IDK! I returned that guitar. Anyway, another super low priced Le Grand on Reverb, blonde. Anyone else see this: Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
Gibson Custom Shop Le Grand | Reverb
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The Legrand is a superb archtop. I have an L5 ces and a Legrand. Very different! Both great.
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In the end if you enjoy the playing experience, like what you are hearing, there is a LOT you can let go in the aesthetic department. I have owned some beautiful guitars, perfect examples and down the road they went, if they didn't meet the "guitar" requirement. Others that I own and cherish would maybe not, meet many folks here, aesthetic expectations. If you're a collector it may be a different requirement, but if you bought the guitar to play, it really shouldn't make much of a difference. It's not hideous by any means! Believe me this is coming from an admitted perfectionist and as fussy as can be. I'm pretty sure you can't see those binding stains when your playing. Enjoy the guitar for what it is. One of the best built and sounding acoustic electric, top tier instrument, built by a respected and cherished builder.
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Originally Posted by tomvwash
And the description describes it as a light guitar. Curious as to what they do weigh. Thx.
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I also sold a guitar (Campellone Deluxe) because it got stained like this. Like Vinny, I have regretted selling that guitar ever since. That guitar was amazing in every other way, and I should not have let the minor discoloration get to me. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
Keith
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