The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    I am not surprised to hear that the nano verb is still being used. If I remember right it is 12bits and a little grainy. That might help in a live situation.

    Reverb is a strange notion. It is trying to emulate natural spaces. I find that fast delays (not as fast and/or not as many taps as verb) works better for me in live stuff. I also find it easier to eq the delay to sit right. This all assumes I am trying to create a sense of space, and not trying to create a strong effect. If I want a strong effect, I really like Eventide’s stuff.

    If I wanted the best guitar-ish verb, I would just get a real spring tank and forego a/d conversion all together.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27
    Thanks everyone. I did a quick search for lowest used prices, mostly from Reverb and Ebay.


    Audio Hall Of Fame $70
    Boss Rv 5 $100
    Electro-Harmonix Holy Grail $120
    Lexicon LXP-1 $120
    Neunaber Wet V5 $120
    Catalinbread Talisman $140
    Tone Candy "Spring Fever" $160
    Digitech Polara $170
    Stryman Blue Sky $210
    Surfy Bear $225
    Meris Mercury 7 $250
    Digitech Rv7 $260
    Golden Audio Reverberator $275
    Nocturne El Pescadoro ?

  4. #28
    I bought the Hall of Fame. Not the $70 one but one for $100 at guitar center. I can return it there if I need to. I do have a Kendrick reverb unit, but it’s size limits its usefulness, so I would like a reverb pedal. I haven’t used effect boxes in so many decades it’s kind of weird to the shop now and see All the 50 knob $500 pedals for everything from phasers to distortion boxes to reverbs. A whole New World. Thank goodness I got into jazz, I couldn’t afford the gear for rock ‘n’ roll anymore. Thanks, everyone, for guiding me to the preferred reverbs, and I will give a full report comparing the Hall of Fame to the Kendrick.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyage
    I bought the Hall of Fame. Not the $70 one but one for $100 at guitar center. I can return it there if I need to. I do have a Kendrick reverb unit, but it’s size limits its usefulness, so I would like a reverb pedal. I haven’t used effect boxes in so many decades it’s kind of weird to the shop now and see All the 50 knob $500 pedals for everything from phasers to distortion boxes to reverbs. A whole New World. Thank goodness I got into jazz, I couldn’t afford the gear for rock ‘n’ roll anymore. Thanks, everyone, for guiding me to the preferred reverbs, and I will give a full report comparing the Hall of Fame to the Kendrick.
    I suspect you will be somewhat disappointed when comparing it to your Kendrick because pretty much all digital based reverbs suck compared to a good spring and tube driven unit. So you've spoiled your ears already. There are some great reverbs out there but to my ears they all sound noticeably digital to some degree, especially when you get into higher gain sounds. It's part of the deal in my experience. Best of fortunes with your new purchase.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyage
    Thanks everyone. I did a quick search for lowest used prices, mostly from Reverb and Ebay.


    Audio Hall Of Fame $70
    Boss Rv 5 $100
    Electro-Harmonix Holy Grail $120
    Lexicon LXP-1 $120
    Neunaber Wet V5 $120
    Catalinbread Talisman $140
    Tone Candy "Spring Fever" $160
    Digitech Polara $170
    Stryman Blue Sky $210
    Surfy Bear $225
    Meris Mercury 7 $250
    Digitech Rv7 $260
    Golden Audio Reverberator $275
    Nocturne El Pescadoro ?
    Of the above mentioned, I owned and used the Hall of Fame, the Boss Rev5, the EH Holy Grail, the Lexicon LXP1 and the Digitech Rev7. I also had the Alesis Nanoverb, which isn't mentioned. To my taste, the winner by far is the Lexicon, honoring its name (as you probably know, Lexicon made the most famous Reverb devices that can be found in the best studio facilities all around the world, and heard in practically every professional musical production.

    It isn't a pedal, rather a half rack unit, your amp better has an FX loop for inserting it in the signal chain due to the Line In Line out stereo connections (no Hi-Z), but, regarding sound quality and credibility, nothing comes even close.
    Let us know what you think about your purchase.
    Last edited by Pierrot; 03-31-2023 at 11:04 AM.

  7. #31

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    I recently got a Keely Caverns pedal, which is reverb and delay. It was about $180 new, and I like it a lot. Saved some space on my pedalboard, too.

  8. #32

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    I have used a Keely Caverns a lot. My experience is that the pedals is very sensitive to guitar and amp choices. Sometimes I had it sounding great, other times it sounded horrible. The pedal never made it on to one of my three boards (small, medium, and large). (That is probably more because I have more flexible verbs: Eventide, Source Audio, and Empress). I have a stash of amps and guitars that I use, and enjoy using pedals like modular synths.

  9. #33

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    Strymon Flint. Hard to find used. Also has a nice tremolo.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    Ask ten guitarists about reverb units and you'll get thirteen opinions.
    You were so right!
    That’s what happened here.

  11. #35

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    I needed a reverb unit for my AI Coda amp years ago, and some guy who fancied himself a tech expert on another forum (he's also here too, very rarely fortunately) recommended some cheap one that was unusable on my Coda. It makes a good doorstop. I can't even remember the name of the unit.
    All the recommendations here sound satisfactory.

  12. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Pierrot
    Of the above mentioned, I owned and used the Hall of Fame, the Boss Rev5, the EH Holy Grail, the Lexicon LXP1 and the Digitech Rev7. I also had the Alesis Nanoverb, which isn't mentioned. To my taste, the winner by far is the Lexicon, honoring its name (as you probably know, Lexicon made the most famous Reverb devices that can be found in the best studio facilities all around the world, and heard in practically every professional musical production.

    It isn't a pedal, rather a half rack unit, your amp better has an FX loop for inserting it in the signal chain due to the Line In Line out stereo connections (no Hi-Z), but, regarding sound quality and credibility, nothing comes even close.
    Let us know what you think about your purchase.
    The Lexicon was my other choice, based on reading some of the people who use it or have used it, and your comment about it being warm. However, I decided to start with the cheapest, and work my way up. I think that the reverb in my Polytone is completely dead and I will get it fixed but it was never great. I will find out if a digital reverb can help or if I just don’t like them. As much as possible I will buy from Guitar Center or another place that will let me return it if I don’t like it. I think I will buy a Lexicon as well so I can compare that to the Hall of Fame and the Kendrick, and then go from there. Thanks for your input.
    Last edited by voyage; 03-31-2023 at 08:00 PM.

  13. #37
    Do you mean that the Lexicon will only work with amps with an effects loop? I don’t really understand about the connections. With my Kendrick, I plug into the in channel, and the out channel goes to the Fender.

    I guess I have about five jazz amps. Only one, the Peterson, has an effects loop. However, the Peterson has superb reverb. I use the Kendrick with my Fender Pro. My Polytone is one of the old velvet ones. I think the newest Mini Brutes did have an effects loop but mine doesn’t. Nor does my Fender, Yamaha, or Gibson. I think the Yamaha has decent reverb but haven’t used it for years. Really I just need it for the Polytone, but I like the sound of the Polytone so it will be worth it to me to have decent reverb with it. The Gibson is a tweed Lancer, and I have not used it for jazz much but with a good reverb maybe I will. Jim Hall did.

    Thanks for your help on this question. It’s good to be able to consult someone who knows.
    Last edited by voyage; 03-31-2023 at 07:57 PM.

  14. #38

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    Time based effects sound “best” after the preamp. That is achieved by placing them into the effects loop on an amp. However, I have many amps that do not offer an effects loops.

    It is fine to run time based fx into the front. It will become a little “smeared” but you will still have a reverb sound. Sometimes I prefer that the verb gets a little less distinct, and that creates a certain feel.

    I think in higher gain situations that is more of a problem, unless you are using a od/dirt/fuzz pedal in front of the verb. The amp is not adding much of the breakup in that setup.

    Personally when I am sitting at home verb is great or if I am in a low volume jam thing. As the levels increase and/or the complexity of sounds, and then I have to eq for a room: verb becomes less useful.

    I like to employ some delay to get sense of space. That way I have control over what is taking place and can voice things as to not muddy up the sonic stage.

    There is really no wrong way to do music. There are just personal choices and questions about how to achieve that preference in a given situation. When it comes down to it, without scary amounts of money, we all have to settle with what we can make work.

    Even top touring acts have to accept the limitations of a given arena. If I remember right, no matter who I saw at the LA Coliseum, they sounded horrible…. and no matter how bad the band was, they sounded great at the Universal Amphitheater. (In those day, expensive tickets were 15$).

  15. #39
    Heh, you ring some bells. Saw my first concert at the Colosseum, Alice Cooper. I think we were on the back row and they looked like ants. I don’t have any of the experience that you do, my situation is sitting in my little study Playing And practicing with my guitars and amps. I don’t play anything but jazz anymore, or at least it was intended to be jazz before it came out of the amp. So I haven’t used effects for years. I wouldn’t know where to begin dealing with all that sound system set up stuff you discuss, it’s alien to me. Maybe someday I’ll play out but there aren’t many places in this small town. In the meantime I just keep working on my repertoire and theory. After playing my Peterson for several months, with its terrific reverb, switching to the Polytone with no reverb is a bit of a shock. Enough to make me spend a few bucks on it. The Polytone and the Peterson are night and day. For my carved archtop the Peterson is just amazing. Like a super accurate and transparent hi-fi reproducing that beautiful wooden tone. For playing some jazz with a fat warm sound, the Polytone is hard to beat. But I think it really needs reverb.

  16. #40

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    Hi voyage.

    I hope this pic explains the "correct" way of connecting pedals with an amp. Please note that all the devices that modify the nature of the sound usually go in front of the signal chain while the time based effects usually go inserted in the amp's FX loop. (The output is usually called send and the input return)

    Is there any consensus on the best reverb unit?-screenshot_20230401_082712_com-android-chrome_1-jpg

    Now, the "problem" with a device like the LXP1 is that it isn't actually a pedal. Instead, it is more of a mid range (but still very good sounding) rackable studio unit, thought to be stationary standing in a recording or mixing control room in a studio.

    Is there any consensus on the best reverb unit?-screenshot_20230401_085541-jpg

    The signal's level and impedance don't match those of a guitar amp input, which is made to manage HI-Z (instrument) level and impedance. Hence the convenience of an FX loop, that usually can accept better the line signal.
    The benefit of using something like the LXP1 is the price. You get a high quality sound at a low cost, but actually the technology of the LXP1 is quite old. In order to get the same quality level with a pedal, you have to spend big bucks...

    Good luck with your quest.

  17. #41
    Thank you. Since I bought it from guitar center if it doesn't sound good I can send it back. When I buy the lexicon I will be sure to also have the option to return it. Finding the right sound seems to be a never-ending quest. It used to be looking for the perfect distortion. Then 20 years ago it became looking for the perfect jazz tone. I owned various archtops and semi-hollow bodies. My ideal jazz tone was rather electric, kind of like David Stryker. When I got my carved arched up I learned a whole new sound for jazz. Now I really like both that kind of electric David Stryker or Bob DeVos sound and a rich carved archtop sound kind of like Russell Malone or Terrence Brewer. Pete Smyser is a really good example of beautiful archtop sound on one of his albums, I'm not sure which one it was. Anyway it's all great. It's a good thing I don't like country and western, slack key, classical, think of all of the guitars I'd have to buy. Well it's not that I don't like that stuff but it's not what I want to play.
    Thanks for your help and clear explanations.

  18. #42

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    When in the late eighties the reverb started to sound weird in one of my Mini Brutes i replaced the unit it with a three spring accutronics reverb tank. The result was very satisfactory, but of course just providing the authentic thing with a slightly more sophisticated sound - no fancy parameters to change. I belive these three spring tanks are still available.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyage
    ... Finding the right sound seems to be a never-ending quest. .

    Agreed. In fact, if you observe the crowd dispersion of this forum, you'll see that this sub-forum (guitars, amps and gizmos) usually collects most of the people interest.

    After playing guitar, (and violin and viola) for 59 years, I can say now that my own quest for my ideal guitar sound is over. This means that I am currently more prone to selling stuff than to buy it. (This is also very positive regarding my relationship with my wife hehe ...)

  20. #44

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    Just to provide another perspective - a few years ago a friend of mine offered me the Lexicon half-rack pictured above (and yes, it needs line level, so it needs to be used in the fx loop).

    It's an historic piece of gear, used by plenty of jazzers in the 90s - but any decent reverb made today pedal sounds MUCH better IMO. I would never go trough the hassle of using the Lexicon given that - it colors the sound too much, as most pedals did back then, specially digital ones. If I were really after the Lexicon sound, as I said, the Hardwire RV-7 does that perfectly, those ARE Lexicon reverbs in a small, instrument level box (you even have a Lexicon logo on the pedal) (I actually think the DSP is the same but the ADA converters just improved massively between the half-rack time of production and the pedal's one, hence the transparency)

    And just another note, I understand why people who use an amp's preamp overdrive would want to use reverb in the fx loop. But, for people who use their amps clean (say, a Polytone), I never saw any advantage in using the fx loop (I actually like using the reverb in the amp's input better).

    Just my 2 cents.
    Last edited by jorgemg1984; 04-01-2023 at 07:16 AM.

  21. #45

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    Ok Jorge, I'll fight hehe (just kidding)

    I had both devices at the same time, maybe 15 years ago (more or less, I just don't remember exactly) and I can assure you that the warmth I could get with the hall preset of the LXP1 was waaayyy better, more jazz friendly, more realistic in every sense that any preset of the RV7, which borrowed the Lexicon algorithms, that's true, but very probably the cheapest ones.
    Again, my point is that in order to get the same level of reverb quality with a modern pedal you have to break much more your wallet.
    As my last advice for voyage, or for anybody looking for a definitive solution for a very (I mean really very) good sound for playing at home, very small gigs, or even busking, is a portable amp like the Boss Dual Cube LX.
    I'll tell you: in my life, I have had roughly 30 guitars, from Gibbies to Ibanez, and more than 20 amps, from valves to SS, from Fender to Polytones (in plural, I had the mini brute II, the IV and the megabrute). Well, at last, I am actually HAPPY with my sound. After maybe 45 years of seriously looking for something that convinced me.
    This small beast is only 10 watts, but it is soooo powerful in its internal config that I can actually tweak my sound to my needs, and everything happens just between the guitar itself and the amp, with its adjustments via Bluetooth. No more hassle of pedals, power supplies, noise, cables...
    Nuff said. Happiness.

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pierrot
    Ok Jorge, I'll fight hehe (just kidding)

    I had both devices at the same time, maybe 15 years ago (more or less, I just don't remember exactly) and I can assure you that the warmth I could get with the hall preset of the LXP1 was waaayyy better, more jazz friendly, more realistic in every sense that any preset of the RV7, which borrowed the Lexicon algorithms, that's true, but very probably the cheapest ones.
    Again, my point is that in order to get the same level of reverb quality with a modern pedal you have to break much more your wallet.
    As my last advice for voyage, or for anybody looking for a definitive solution for a very (I mean really very) good sound for playing at home, very small gigs, or even busking, is a portable amp like the Boss Dual Cube LX.
    I'll tell you: in my life, I have had roughly 30 guitars, from Gibbies to Ibanez, and more than 20 amps, from valves to SS, from Fender to Polytones (in plural, I had the mini brute II, the IV and the megabrute). Well, at last, I am actually HAPPY with my sound. After maybe 45 years of seriously looking for something that convinced me.
    This small beast is only 10 watts, but it is soooo powerful in its internal config that I can actually tweak my sound to my needs, and everything happens just between the guitar itself and the amp, with its adjustments via Bluetooth. No more hassle of pedals, power supplies, noise, cables...
    Nuff said. Happiness.
    Ah ah, no fights here I respect your opinion - I still have the Lexicon (as I said, it was a gift), if one day I find a cheap RV7 I'll buy it again and rethink my perspective. Who knows, maybe I'll say you're right As memory serves right now, I (strongly) prefered the RV7.

    Never tried the Boss, I'll look into it - but I'm very happy with my digital setup and two Mambo PA cabs. I still have a vintage Polytone, but it's merely decorative.

  23. #47

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    Yep, as others have pointed out, "consensus" and "best" are terms that do/should not exist in online forums!

    [also, when seriously considering gear, I think it's helpful to post a desired budget!]

    [BTW, Nocturne Brain El Pesc: $245]

    Other ideas than above:

    - J Rockett "Boing" ($170);
    - Hagerman "Reverb" ($150).

  24. #48
    May I ask, what direct means? Here is the lexicon manual, https://lexiconpro.com/en/product_documents/lxp1pdf

    On page one – eight, it shows a set up with the guitar going into an amp and a direct out or preamp out. This must be the line level output that goes to the Lexicon that you guys are explaining. I guess that puts the nail in the coffin for the Lexicon for me. Maybe I’ll get the RV-7 to compare to the Hall of Fame.

  25. #49

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    Correct. Direct means unchanged.
    Whatever goes in, goes out.

  26. #50
    That boss dual cube looks pretty interesting, I’ll have to check one out.