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For myself, I recognized long ago that if I was listening to a jazz guitar recording, I couldn't tell you what make or model of guitar was being played. I didn't feel quite so guilty after watching Jens' video.
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03-17-2023 03:26 PM
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Your post is timely for me.I was just saying to someone the other day a lot of guitars are starting to sound the same to me.I took out an old samick archtop and gave it a new setup and it sounded really good,as good as some guitars for which i paid much more money .
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I don't know if Jens said something about EQ-ing out the low frequencies of an archtop to keep out of the bass player's way, when it's part of the overall sound of the instrument. Anyway, good luck trying to get your plank to sound like this! Superb playing by Andreas
And with a set-in pickup....
Last edited by Peter C; 03-17-2023 at 06:59 PM.
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I know what you mean. I have a Samick HJ-650 that I paid $300 for 20 years ago and it sounds great.
Originally Posted by nyc chaz
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The misunderstanding between archtops and inferior electric guitars; sorry I mean ‘solid bodies’
is usually down to the speed of attack and decay of the note.
This ime is what fundamentally separates the ‘sound’ between the two.
That and Archtops have depth to each note compared to the more compressed, or naturally compressed response of a solid body.
It is just the physics of the thing and electrification wont take that away.
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Beware of listening with your eyes.
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I have quite a few archtops I rotate in between using the same setup in a fixed space. There is a big difference based on a myriad of factors. They certainly don't all sound the same. Could I make them all sound the same if I were pumping a YouTube channel? If I used that dull roll off jazz tone probably so. If I used the best each is capable of, probably not.
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I don't like such artificial comparisons of the sound of guitars in the privacy of a recording studio. Originally Posted by va3ux
The guitar is best checked during gigs.
Then it might turn out to be something completely different.
This is a very personal thing.
The name jazz guitar is also an archaic term.
The jazz musician also plays the 'rock guitar' beautifully.
Funny.
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Based on looks alone I'll take the Ibanez and EQ what might need to be EQ'd. I never got the 'chase the perfect sound' thing, just get a good sound on a fun to play guitar and run with it! Chase the phrase before the sound, or at least place the phrase above the sound. And if you like the guitar, and the way it looks and feels, then go from there. There's a billion ways to adjust a guitars sound. Originally Posted by va3ux
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That video does not prove all three guitars sound the same - it proves Jens sounds the same on all of them. Not sure that's a complement.
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Exactly. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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Bruce Forman once told me that if he could find a guitar that did not sound like him, he would buy it.
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I find that I can get almost all of my guitars to get the traditional jazz tone with an EQ pedal. The rest is up to me and my hands. There usually are differences with attack and sustain anyway, as someone else said. I think it would be more difficult if you are looking for a more open, contemporary tone. But I understand that most (even me sometimes) are going for a more midrange traditional sound. Maybe we should blame it on Wes. Everyone wanted to sound like him, but they didn't play with their thumb, so they had to reach for the EQ. As well that some other players had a very dark tone that some like (Martino etc).
What I can't do is get each guitar to sound like the other at what it does best. That's why I don't bother to play jazz on my strat or telecaster, they just work better for different things for me.
I find these type of internet comparisons to be rather disingenuous, and usually (not necessarily in this case) to be an attempt to pump up clicks. Also, how can anyone evaluate tone on Youtube?
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It gives a ballpark idea, much the same way as trying a guitar out in the store through an amp you may not own is also getting a ballpark idea. There is too much gear out there to be able to test everything out in a live setting in person unless you have a generous salary and you still don't really know how a guitar will work out until it's live on stage or in the studio with a band, unless you are a solo guitar guy. Originally Posted by bluejaybill
Ever heard a guitarist that mostly plays at home? His tone will almost always be too rich and bassy to work well with a band. Great living room tone usually doesn't convey to great tone on stage.
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I found years ago that upon listening to recordings of my gigs, if I didn't know which guitar I played at any given gig I couldn't tell which one I used just from the sound of it. My carvetop with floater, my GB10, my Telecasters, my Stratishcaster, all end up being indistinguishable from each other on the bandstand in the absence of visual information. The one distinct audible difference was if I played a nylon string instrument. I just end up sounding like me; my sound appears to be in my interaction with the instrument rather than from the instrument. In fact, without me, the guitar has no sound at all. I have sunk a lot of money over the last 40 years into trying to buy a better sound to no avail. Originally Posted by Spook410
The point about a great living room tone not being a great on-stage tone is also spot on. Once the guitar is competing with bass, drums, horns, pianos, singers, etc., most of that nice warm fat, dark living room tone is covered up by other things. That's part of why it is hard to tell which instrument I am playing on the recordings we made. I can hear differences in my living room, but once engaged with the band most of that is inaudible.
There are a lot of folks that have an emotional (and financial) investment in the superiority of one kind of instrument over another for purpose. And why not? Playing music is an emotional experience and we should use the instrument that we feel suits us best. To claim that one kind of instrument is objectively or categorically superior to another, however, is nonsense. One kind of instrument might be better for you and another might be better for me; nothing wrong with that.
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Lists, rankings, comparisons and contests are the markers of our times. I shudder when I recall those interminable tests of speakers, one after the other, and those men on YouTube ranting about differences between pedals only they can hear. Originally Posted by bluejaybill
I am sure we would be happier if we accepted what we have.
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To my ears, my best sounding guitar is a particular Yunzhi. $1000 when I got it. Second is another Yunzhi. After that it depends.. electric vs acoustic mostly. The 89 L5 is certainly a good electric archtop though it works best through a 1X12 combo rather than the full range system. Originally Posted by Cunamara
I think a lot of people assume that if you can afford expensive instruments and enjoy what they do that you hear with your wallet. I don't believe that's the case. Most expensive guitars do sound good. That's why they are expensive. However, there are exceptions and most of us find the exception interesting.
As for stage, I agree that if you're playing with a full group in a poor acoustic space it matters a lot less. Studio should be another matter unless you rip the soul out of a guitar with the tone knob and your choice of amplifier. An archtop that sounds like a plank is not a very good archtop.
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Someone famous once wrote something along the lines of "the secret to happiness is not having what we want, it's wanting what we have." Originally Posted by Litterick
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Do you think this would have somehow been better on an archtop with .013 flatwounds than Tele with .010 roundwounds? Originally Posted by Spook410
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I've had about 50 guitars in my life.
And I can safely say what I liked about these guitars and what I didn't.
I had my idea of what a jazz guitar sounded like, and I was trying to find that sound in those 50 guitars.
Never ending story-this is it
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I think that it would have been much better if Ed had played the exact same thing on his acoustic L-5C w/factory-installed JS pickup, with an appropriate set of heavier strings. Originally Posted by Cunamara
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I think so too... but Ed chose the guitar. He created his personal sound using mainly Tele. Originally Posted by Hammertone
I really like sustain of Tele.
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Originally Posted by Cunamara
Actually.. yea. I do. None of my favorite jazz tones are planks so if Bickert had gone a different direction I probably would have preferred it.
I suppose the follow on would have to be: Do you think Wes/Pass/Burrell/(very long list goes here) would have sounded better on a plank?
Measurable example: Julian Lage sounds different on the Manzer vs a tele or duo jet. What he is creating on the planks is quite different so apples and oranges, but for tone I like the Manzer and wish he had done a few more archtop albums before his artistic direction took him elsewhere.Last edited by Spook410; 03-19-2023 at 04:50 AM.
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I'm a physicist (at the undergrad level). The harmonics of a middle C on one guitar are completely different than a middle C on a different guitar. Now, can your ears tell the difference? No idea. However, when someone uses the exact same guitar to record two different parts on a YT video, my ears can hear a really bad interference when the two guitars hit the same note.
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