1965 Guild Starfire 4 Special

[Archie]

Hi all.

I purchased this guitar at the guitar auctions last week. The hammer price was £1,300 so it ended up costing me £1,700. That's the problem with auctions, even though you know it's not £1,300, when the auctioneer is closing on £1,200, you have to bid; especially for a vintage Guild.

The guitar is refinished but it's been tastefully done. There is no sign of aggressive removal of the previous one, which is the most important bit to me. I don't want the dimensions to have changed because someone went at it with an angle grinder. The guitar looks and feels like it would have done originally. The colour and spray pattern is a little off for Hoboken but the contours are right.

There is another reason why I wanted it, which is a little more calculated. It has a vintage Guild Bigsby on it and I need one to put my DE-400 back to original speck. The DE-400 is from 1967 and the SF4 is from 65. I can't tell what year the Bigsby is from but it looks period correct, although missing the black enamel around the Guild logo.

There is no way I would asset strip one vintage guitar fo feed another but in this example, the Guild SF4 doesn't come with a Bigsby and it makes the guitar bottom heavy (like a Les Paul), so by removing it from the SF4, I can return that to its original spec and return the DE400 to the original spec.

Winner winner chicken dinner!

Here is a a couple of iPhone pics of the SF4. I thought I'd do them in the style of a vintage catalogue.

I'm also editing a video of the SF4 and a vlog of my journey back down to the auctions to pick it up earlier today. I'll upload them hopefully tonight but likely tomorrow.

[Archie]

Video

[jim777]

Wow, that is stunning! And IMHO it will look better without the Bigsby; I'd play that out tonight if I had it in house. She's a fantastic addition to the stable, play the frets clean off her

[ggjaguar]

That's a Starfire IV Special and the "Special" denotes that the Bigsby is factory original. Pirating the Guildsby on this particular guitar would be asset striping in this case. I'm all for keeping guitars as original as possible, but they are your guitars to do with as you please and I can understand the desire to make the DE-400 whole again.

[vinnyv1k]

Beautiful Guild ! Nice refinish job. Looks like a winner.

[Archie]

That's a Starfire IV Special and the "Special" denotes that the Bigsby is factory original. Pirating the Guildsby on this particular guitar would be asset striping in this case. I'm all for keeping guitars as original as possible, but they are your guitars to do with as you please and I can understand the desire to make the DE-400 whole again.

Amazing isn't it. I went to buy a plain old SF4 and ended up with special, which in most worlds would be a good thing lol

50% of the reason I bought this was for the Bigsby and 50% because when I inspected it at the auction, it stood out as a really nice example. Good weight, tone, plays itself as good Guilds do.

I'm a bit stumped now. Do I keep the guitar with a refinish whole, or do I put the Bigsby on the DE-400 and make that whole instead.
The DE-400 is much rarer and more valuable with the Bigsby than a refinished SF4 but I am against asset stripping in general.

[ggjaguar]

I'm a bit stumped now. Do I keep the guitar with a refinish whole, or do I put the Bigsby on the DE-400 and make that whole instead. The DE-400 is much rarer and more valuable with the Bigsby than a refinished SF4 but I am against asset stripping in general.

Your original idea was indeed a win-win situation for both guitars until the "Special" surprise popped up! The odds were certainly in your favor that the Bigsby was added by a previous owner because factory-fitted Bigsbys are quite uncommon. But then there's the DE-400 to consider - a true rare bird. Whatever you decide, you'll still have two really nice Guilds!

[Archie]

Your original idea was indeed a win-win situation for both guitars until the "Special" surprise popped up! The odds were certainly in your favor that the Bigsby was added by a previous owner because factory-fitted Bigsbys are quite uncommon. But then there's the DE-400 to consider - a true rare bird. Whatever you decide, you'll still have two really nice Guilds!

But dare I share this plan on the Guild forum

[JFranck]

Congratulations ! I like your Starfire and hope it sounds as good as it looks.

And it has an interesting history as his previous owner Ray Fenwick was in 1967 a member of Spencer Davis Group, and played with Bo Diddley, Cozy Powell, Steve Howe and many more.
Ray Fenwick - Wikipedia
Your SF IV is, as stated on the label, a special order. Did he buy it first hand ? Who knows, but it could have been on a lot of stages and recordings.
Indeed the Bigsby and his bridge would not be out of place on your DE400, but if it were me I would leave it as is.
Just my two cents...

[jim777]

But dare I share this plan on the Guild forum

If you do you need to let us know

BTW, is that a Brazilian fret board?

[Archie]

Congratulations ! I like your Starfire and hope it sounds as good as it looks.

And it has an interesting history as his previous owner Ray Fenwick was in 1967 a member of Spencer Davis Group, and played with Bo Diddley, Cozy Powell, Steve Howe and many more.
Ray Fenwick - Wikipedia
Your SF IV is, as stated on the label, a special order. Did he buy it first hand ? Who knows, but it could have been on a lot of stages and recordings.
Indeed the Bigsby and his bridge would not be out of place on your DE400, but if it were me I would leave it as is.
Just my two cents...

Thanks for the info JFranck.

I looked about a little and found this picture. In amongst the guitars you can see the GSF4. You also see Rays other guitars; his Rickenbacker, Hofner Committee, Gibson ES-335 etc..

[JFranck]

Very interesting picture, thanks !

This is my friend Marc's DE 400 (65) without bigsby, most probably original since there are no other screw holes than those necessary to hold the Lyre tailpiece .
So perhaps yours is too.




He sent me along a picture of a "Starfire III Special" from 64 with an uncommon white finish, Mickey Mouse PUs and a non-black frame Bigsby just as on your SFIV .