2006 MIK Epiphone Broadway - This is getting to be a problem...

[rolijen]

This must be my fifth or sixth import Broadway. There is just something about a good Broadway that I can't resist. It may be time for an intervention.

I've posted before about upgrading pickups, wiring, pots, caps, etc. on these great bang-for-the-buck guitars. I sold the last one to a forum member after a thorough set of upgrades. It turned out really nice. Over the years all of them turned out really nice.

So, I'm starting a new project today with a 2006 Broadway I acquired from a gentleman about an hour and a half drive from my home. For the price we agreed on (including case), I couldn't pass it up. It came strung with flatwound 10s (maybe Chromes?). What is remarkable about this particular Korean Broadway is its clear articulate acoustic voice. I'm really surprised by it. Even with the light strings on it, the sound is inspiring. I dont think I've ever played a laminate guitar with this much volume and clarity. The pickups are a bit of a disappointment but I plan to get a pair of Seths for it.

I will leave this one out in my studio and put away the Gibsons when students are here.

So far, I've fitted a new bridge and cut the string slots into the saddle, and I just got done cutting the pickup notches into an L-5 pickguard and mounting it to the guitar. It has corrosion on most of the gold parts but I don't care as I will eventually be replacing all the hardware. Some things I plan to do include dressing and polishing the frets, cleaning and conditioning the gunky fretboard, installing a new tailpiece, new tuners, and building a new wiring harness--switch, jack, pots, caps, knobs, and of course pickups.

Thanks for hearing my confession.

Roli


P.S. Here are a couple of photos from Phase 1 (new bridge and pickguard):

[Gitterbug]

I'm a fan of the Korean Epis, the Frequensator tailpiece notwithstanding. I wonder if they ever got a patent for it.

[rolijen]

I'm a fan of the Korean Epis, the Frequensator tailpiece notwithstanding. I wonder if they ever got a patent for it.

I don’t enjoy the Frequensator either. I dislike all the ringing south of the bridge. And it’s hard to get the A and D strings into the tuner on some string sets. Nope. A parallelogram tailpiece will likely replace it shortly.

[hotpepper01]

They are great guitars with lots of bang for the buck. About the tailpiece: sometimes the stringlength can be an issue for the lowest 3 strings when the nylon wrapped part of the string ends up below the nut. I have seen people change the forks, the longer one for the lowest strings. Or even have 2 long forks.

Btw: I still have a brandnew L5CT tailpiece lying around somewhere, just in case someone wants to upgrade their Epi, Greco or Ibanez or...

[RobbieAG]

It's very similar to the MIK Samick Greg Bennett JZ2 Lasalle I picked up recently. I've very pleased with it. Samick may have made these Epiphone Broadways. Mine has Duncan Designed pickups which sound good so I don't think they need to be replaced. I'll most likely replace the pots as a couple are scratchy and I wasn't able to fix them with contact cleaner.

[rolijen]

It's very similar to the MIK Samick Greg Bennett JZ2 Lasalle I picked up recently. I've very pleased with it. Samick may have made these Epiphone Broadways. Mine has Duncan Designed pickups which sound good so I don't think they need to be replaced. I'll most likely replace the pots as a couple are scratchy and I wasn't able to fix them with contact cleaner.

The first 5 characters of the serial number on this one are U0606, indicating the Unsung factory, June of 2006. I am very impressed by the build quality. I’ll try to post a sound clip of this Broadway’s acoustic and electric tone.

I hate pouring too much into an “low-end” archtop, but I will invest in this one. Like they say, it has good bones. However, the neck pickup is overly dark/muddy. Of course better pots/caps may help. Looking into the f-hole, I happily see full-size pots, but light gauge cheap wiring. Hence, my compulsion will likely drive eventual upgrades of all the electronic components.

[st.bede]

In my book, there is nothing wrong about upgrading electronics. Either, I going to play and be happy, or I am going to play and wish it sounded better. If the upgrade gets it into the happy area, then it is worth it. There have been guitars, that no matter what I could do, I would be unhappy. I sell those. There is always better, but when good enough is at a certain level, no need to chase expensive alternatives…. as far as working guitars. At least that is how I look at it.

[Sam Sherry]

I hate pouring too much into an “low-end” archtop, but I will invest in this one. Like they say, it has good bones.

I've done the same thing and I always kick myself.

However, the neck pickup is overly dark/muddy.

Try dropping it farther into the body until you like it better.
There is a sweet spot and it costs nothing but time to find it.

Of course better pots/caps may help. . . . I . . . see full-size pots, but light gauge cheap wiring. Hence, my compulsion will likely drive eventual upgrades of all the electronic components.

I'm skeptical.
It's one thing if a pot is broken or if you prefer, say, 500k and these are 250k. You can hear a difference with that, especially if you tend to play wide-open on the pots. But otherwise, it's electrical values -- there's no mojo.

And double that for the caps. There are many thousands of corksniffer-approved collector-worthy Fender guitars with ceramic disc capacitors. You've actually enjoyed the music they made ever since you started listening to electric guitar music. You really can't hear the difference. And triple that if you don't roll off your tone pot!

But I bet you would love switching over to those swanky smooth-disc reflector knobs over at Philadelphia Luthier Supply. That's $12.24 worth of luxury right there!



All the best to you Roli. Have fun -- I know you will!

[rolijen]

I've done the same thing and I always kick myself.


Try dropping it farther into the body until you like it better.
There is a sweet spot and it costs nothing but time to find it.


I'm skeptical.
It's one thing if a pot is broken or if you prefer, say, 500k and these are 250k. You can hear a difference with that, especially if you tend to play wide-open on the pots. But otherwise, it's electrical values -- there's no mojo.

And double that for the caps. There are many thousands of corksniffer-approved collector-worthy Fender guitars with ceramic disc capacitors. You've actually enjoyed the music they made ever since you started listening to electric guitar music. You really can't hear the difference. And triple that if you don't roll off your tone pot!

But I bet you would love switching over to those swanky smooth-disc reflector knobs over at Philadelphia Luthier Supply. That's $12.24 worth of luxury right there!



All the best to you Roli. Have fun -- I know you will!

Thanks, Sam.

I'll test the electronic components before chucking them. They look to be of decent quality. I've tried the boutique caps and can't hear any difference. I just go with what's in my parts bin and experiment a little to get it right. With vol and tone full up, this neck pickup is muddy. I've dropped it a bit but will attempt even more to see if I can get it acceptable. Otherwise, it'll get chucked.

Photo coming....

[rolijen]

While I'd love an L-5 style tailpiece (pure class!), I'm still thinking parallelogram. What do you think?


I mean, this style tailpiece looks pretty good on a Tal. How 'bout on a Broadway?:

[DawgBone]

I like the parallelogram. But I like the frequensator as well. I like the Farlow style piece. Maybe a nice finger tailpiece. All of them look classy to me.

That guitar is nearing 20 years old which is when an acoustic bodied guitar starts getting good on a particular instrument in my experience. I would upgrade all the electronics especially since you like the guitar. Cheap pots, flimsy wiring, and fail prone switches gotta go along with getting a better set of pickups in there. I regret not sucking it up and going all out on a nice Sheraton I had considering the prices of everything guitar related now. If a guitar feels and plays great it's worth it to upgrade to satisfy all playing/gigging needs that might be missing. Regardless, enjoy!

[339 in june]

Nice Broadway indeed ! No doubt it will be nicer after all the improvements you plan
Happy to hear that it has a good acoustic voice. I have an Unsung 2014 that I learned to like, but I had to string it with 14's to make it sound (unplugged AND plugged)
I don't like the Frequensator either, and your parallelogram tailpiece looks like a good idea to me.
Happy NGD and keep us informed (I may take some of your ideas to improve mine !)

[lawson-stone]

Like you I love a nice Broadway and have one! I've got the guts ready for refreshing the electronics. I have no issues with investing in the improvement of a less expensive guitar because it's MINE and I have to play it and I want to love it. In addition, you just won't ever invest the equivalent of the next model up. You buy a $750 Broadway, put $300 worth of work and electronics in it, you still have paid way less for a very fine playing, fine sounding guitar, than if you'd bought something more expensive that you might have wanted to upgrade still.

I have the Epiphone Broadway, Zephyr Regent Re-issue, and I've owned the Elitist Broadway (WOW!), the Premium ES175 (WOW) and the older 335 copy. All were excellent instruments, all got some upgrading except the Elitist, but none ended up costing more than I'd have paid for a higher-end version of the same model.

Plus, it's just fun. Have we actually forgotten about fun?

[Stringswinger]

My experience with Korean and Japanese made archtops is that they can be made into superb guitars once the electronics, particularly the pickups are changed out. I have read some commentators posit that the desirable sounds to people who speak those languages are different than desirable sounds to a Western ear and hence, what we might perceive as cheap sounding pickups are simply different. Cultural bias is a real thing. But we are looking for a particular sound and must chase it.

Years ago, I had a couple of the Korean made D'Angelico's. The one I bought brand new sounded harsh to me ear (with it's Korean made KA floater) and I sold it fairly quickly (I did not like the burst, which was way too orange, nor the abalone binding which was way too blingy for my taste, so changing the pickups was not really an option for me). The one I bought used had the pickups changed out to US made Duncans and sounded great (I sold that one after about a year when it became apparent that compared to my 175's, it was not going to see much play time).

Enjoy the Epi. I like the look of the Frequensator tailpiece myself and if finding the right length strings was an issue, I would just go with two long forks myself, but a Gibson style tailpiece works too.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I'm skeptical. It's one thing if a pot is broken or if you prefer, say, 500k and these are 250k. You can hear a difference with that, especially if you tend to play wide-open on the pots. But otherwise, it's electrical values -- there's no mojo.

And double that for the caps. There are many thousands of corksniffer-approved collector-worthy Fender guitars with ceramic disc capacitors. You've actually enjoyed the music they made ever since you started listening to electric guitar music. You really can't hear the difference. And triple that if you don't roll off your tone pot!

I agree. This discussion on the Lollar website does too. Neither I nor anyone I know has ever been able to hear a difference in value-matched caps or pots of different types in a guitar.

That “flimsy wiring” will not degrade the sound quality. You could use welding cable and not hear an improvement as long as all conductive parts, grounding, shielding, and connections are correct and solidly intact. Garden variety coax (which has much more cable capacitance than straight wire) has a capacitance in the range of 100 PF / meter. A foot of simple, fine foil shielded wire as used in most guitars may add 10 pF, which will not have an audible effect on tone.

As a comparator, George L’s lowest capacitance cable (one of the lowest available) is 67 pF / meter. Maybe Eric Johnson can hear an effect from a short one (and maybe he can’t) - but most of the rest of us can’t. Switches and jacks will also have no sonic effect if all contacts and connections are clean and intact. And apart from the pickup leads, most guitars use thin, plain, unshielded wire to connect pots, jacks and switches. There’s no sonic advantage to one covering material over another - Teflon, nylon, and cotton wrap all sound the same.

Remember that capacitance between the hot pickup lead(s) and ground acts as a high pass filter that bleeds off highs from the signal. So added capacitance in the guitar’s wiring is a treble cut, which is one path to a darker “jazzier” tone. And using pure capacitance as a high pass filter adds a small boost (1 or 2 dB) a little below the cutoff frequency at which it starts passing signal. So if the wiring in an inexpensive guitar does add enough capacitance to affect tone, it’s probably improving it for jazz.

[Stringswinger]

How is Gibson going to be able charge (and get) a big premium for bumble bee caps if you guys keep posting the truth about capacitors?

Fine bourbon and fine wine I get. Fine capacitors not so much.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

How is Gibson going to be able charge (and get) a big premium for bumble bee caps if you guys keep posting the truth about capacitors?

Everybody knows that bumblebees have the juice that gets ya loose…

[rolijen]

I agree. This discussion on the Lollar website does too. Neither I nor anyone I know has ever been able to hear a difference in value-matched caps or pots of different types in a guitar.

That “flimsy wiring” will not degrade the sound quality. You could use welding cable and not hear an improvement as long as all conductive parts, grounding, shielding, and connections are correct and solidly intact. Garden variety coax (which has much more cable capacitance than straight wire) has a capacitance in the range of 100 PF / meter. A foot of simple, fine foil shielded wire as used in most guitars may add 10 pF, which will not have an audible effect on tone.

As a comparator, George L’s lowest capacitance cable (one of the lowest available) is 67 pF / meter. Maybe Eric Johnson can hear an effect from a short one (and maybe he can’t) - but most of the rest of us can’t. Switches and jacks will also have no sonic effect if all contacts and connections are clean and intact. And apart from the pickup leads, most guitars use thin, plain, unshielded wire to connect pots, jacks and switches. There’s no sonic advantage to one covering material over another - Teflon, nylon, and cotton wrap all sound the same.

Remember that capacitance between the hot pickup lead(s) and ground acts as a high pass filter that bleeds off highs from the signal. So added capacitance in the guitar’s wiring is a treble cut, which is one path to a darker “jazzier” tone. And using pure capacitance as a high pass filter adds a small boost (1 or 2 dB) a little below the cutoff frequency at which it starts passing signal. So if the wiring in an inexpensive guitar does add enough capacitance to affect tone, it’s probably improving it for jazz.

I agree fully. But these pickups sound really bad. Since I’ll be doing the work of replacing them, I’ll put in CTS pots and a Switchcraft jack and switch. I’ll grab a few capacitors from my parts bin and experiment. I like the non-linear volume drop/treble attenuation inherent in the old Gibson circuit, so I’ll use that.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I agree fully. But these pickups sound really bad.

That's why I didn't mention pickups at all. There are so many options there that almost anybody can find a good one with enough patience. The problem is that it's hard to know how any pickup will sound in any guitar without trying it. But before abandoning ship on the ones that are in it now, be sure they're getting a chance to shine. You never know what someone might have done to a guitar - there could be pots or caps with the wrong values, incorrect or faulty wiring etc. The more you know, the easier it will be to get the sound you want.

[rolijen]

Phase II completed this morning. New keystone grovers, parallelogram tailpiece, Vintage style amber tophat knobs. Level and polish frets (they were pretty straight but dirty/corroded.

I’m testing it with 12s. Went round wound to see if I could overcome some of the mud in the neck pickup. Nope. Still sounds bad. Have experimented with height and still bad.

Next phase will be working on the electronics.



Roli

[rolijen]

Funny, I keep comparing this Broadway to my Tal. It’s not a bad match up. The Tal’s frets are bigger and more comfortable to play, and it sounds like a million bucks plugged in. But design wise, they are very similar.

[myhandhurts]

Hello--
I've been playing for a long time as well as working on my own guitars and getting them to sound well-balanced volume and tone wise. Basically I keep the neck pickup around 7.5k to 8k with an alnico 5 magnet and a 500k volume pot [sometime 1 meg]. Then I adjust the height of the pickup and the polepieces to fine-tune the balance with the bridge pickup. I'm not a fan of Duncan pickups in general but the made in Korea "Duncan Designed" neck pickups can sound pretty good if tweaked properly. Keep in mind that a humbucker will sound less bass-heavy and more open with the cover removed, too. These are all starting points for me...it's all a matter of balance.

[rolijen]

The latest phase of the project involved new wiring and pickups.

Warning: boring details ahead. Feel free to skip to the photos below.

Details: I used TAOT CTS 500k close-tolerance pots and a couple of orange drop caps. The OEM 3-way toggle switch and output jack were high quality parts in great shape so I reused them.

Using a rubbing of the guitar’s top, I created a jig to hold all components in the proper locations. Using Gavitt braided one-conductor cable and shrink tubing, I made all wiring and component connections using the vintage style Gibson circuit. I should have taken a photo to share. It turned out really nice.

Last step before installing the new harness in the guitar was to solder in a new set of Duncan Seth Lover pickups.

Install: This time I didn’t use thread or dental floss to pull components into place (the only fishing I had to do was to get the new ground wire back through the hole under the tailpiece). I was able to use my fingers and a chopstick to get everything in place fairly quickly (it helps to have done this quite a few times in the past!).

I installed new, gold pointers and tightened the pots, secured the switch and jack, added gold reflector knobs and reinstalled the tailpiece and pick guard. Finally strung it with LaBella Jazz Flats and adjusted the pickup heights and got the pole pieces in the right spots for even balance.

Conclusion: It was a lot of work. And maybe, investing another $400 into a low end guitar doesn’t make sense. But, with the higher quality components, the Broadway plays wonderful and sounds fantastic. These Seths make all three switch positions usable. The neck pickup is gorgeous. Thick and fat with a bit of that L-5 bark that is so distinctive. I’m really pleased. Remaining upgrades: I will make a new bone nut for it in the near future and at some point, I will refret it. These frets are thinner and lower than I like and I lost a little more in the leveling process. It plays very well but I’m a tinkerer. Probably should do the frets before making a new nut. We’ll see.

Pics:

[vinnyv1k]

Very impressed with your skills my friend. Beautiful work !

[Max405]

That is a cool read.
Roli, I love your spirit man. Such a good dude. Keep having fun.
I think the guitar looks great. I’ll bet it plays incredibly well. And the pickup change not only LOOKS incredible, but I’m sure the sound improved 1000%.
Awesome buddy.
Joe D
Question, do you have LED lighting in that room?