The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
  1. #1

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    Hi,

    I am new on this forum, although it's been several years I read some topics here but i have a question and I hope some knowledgeable people here might help me about it .

    I search for some information about the Johnny Smith pickup and its possible evolution from the early '60s to the late '70s.

    I know there was some evolution in the material used to build the Gibson PAF pickups , then the early Patent PUs and late, the T-Tops in the late '60s, so I wonder if there was an evolution as well in the way the Johnny Smith PU was built and the material used to build it.

    A friend of mine (who used to have a Guitar shop in Paris , from the early '80s, until 3-4 years ago, selling vintage guitars made mostly before 1970) proposes me a 1961 L7-C, equiped with a Johnny Smith pickup.

    As a matter of fact , he found the pickup and installed it on this L7-C several years ago, as the friend to who he was selling the guitar, wanted a Johnny Smith floating pickup on that L7-C but he doesn't know what year this pickup was built (not sure he ever knew when this pickup was made), so I try to know if there are some differences between the early Johnny Smith Pickups and the ones made in the '70s, until Gibson stopped manufacturing it, in 1979 I believe .

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    From what I've read in different places, the earliest ones (1961) did not have adjustable pole pieces; you can see tortoiseshell celluloid through the holes in the cover, where the screws would go. I believe that was only the first year of production. It might not even have been all of that year. Jason Lollar did an article about mini humbuckers, including a paragraph on the JS and its unique design. They were introduced on the GJS and certain Epiphone models.

    Humbuckers and Mini-Humbuckers - Premier Guitar

    Note that the bar magnet is in the slug coil, with a steel base plate and steel screw slugs for the other coil. So the magnet structure is quite different than any other pickup out there. There are other mini humbuckers with different magnet arrangements, including PAF style and Firebird style (which uses two bar magnets, one in each coil). While people tend to call any floating mini humbucker with a neck mount a "Johnny Smith" pickup, you might get any of those other designs under the hood. It might take a little research to find one with the actual JS design (Lollar, possibly others).

    I have a 1981 Ibanez GB10, which was sort of intended to be a Gibson Johnny Smith that shrunk in the wash. I don't know whether the magnet arrangement in those pickups is the same as the original JS pickup, but I sure do like the sound of that guitar. I've been playing it for 36 years. The older ones had alnico magnets and the more recent ones have ceramic magnets, apparently. They have much higher output than the old Gibson ones which allows for a tremendous amount of sonic flexibility.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    From what I've read in different places, the earliest ones (1961) did not have adjustable pole pieces; you can see tortoiseshell celluloid through the holes in the cover, where the screws would go. I believe that was only the first year of production. It might not even have been all of that year. Jason Lollar did an article about mini humbuckers, including a paragraph on the JS and its unique design. They were introduced on the GJS and certain Epiphone models.

    Humbuckers and Mini-Humbuckers - Premier Guitar

    Note that the bar magnet is in the slug coil, with a steel base plate and steel screw slugs for the other coil. So the magnet structure is quite different than any other pickup out there. There are other mini humbuckers with different magnet arrangements, including PAF style and Firebird style (which uses two bar magnets, one in each coil). While people tend to call any floating mini humbucker with a neck mount a "Johnny Smith" pickup, you might get any of those other designs under the hood. It might take a little research to find one with the actual JS design (Lollar, possibly others).

    I have a 1981 Ibanez GB10, which was sort of intended to be a Gibson Johnny Smith that shrunk in the wash. I don't know whether the magnet arrangement in those pickups is the same as the original JS pickup, but I sure do like the sound of that guitar. I've been playing it for 36 years. The older ones had alnico magnets and the more recent ones have ceramic magnets, apparently. They have much higher output than the old Gibson ones which allows for a tremendous amount of sonic flexibility.
    I have one of the early versions of the Johnny Smith pickup (with the tortoise shell celluloid filling the holes). They were also flipped around so the holes were on the bridge side of the pickup, instead of the neck side. The design of these early versions is a little strange, but they sound great.
    Keith
    Johnny Smith Pickup Evolution - Material used to build it and tone?-fdd4a15e-6a93-4447-80ae-dfadaf66a3b1-jpeg

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    From what I've read in different places, the earliest ones (1961) did not have adjustable pole pieces; you can see tortoiseshell celluloid through the holes in the cover, where the screws would go. I believe that was only the first year of production. It might not even have been all of that year. Jason Lollar did an article about mini humbuckers, including a paragraph on the JS and its unique design. They were introduced on the GJS and certain Epiphone models.

    Humbuckers and Mini-Humbuckers - Premier Guitar

    Note that the bar magnet is in the slug coil, with a steel base plate and steel screw slugs for the other coil. So the magnet structure is quite different than any other pickup out there. There are other mini humbuckers with different magnet arrangements, including PAF style and Firebird style (which uses two bar magnets, one in each coil). While people tend to call any floating mini humbucker with a neck mount a "Johnny Smith" pickup, you might get any of those other designs under the hood. It might take a little research to find one with the actual JS design (Lollar, possibly others).

    I have a 1981 Ibanez GB10, which was sort of intended to be a Gibson Johnny Smith that shrunk in the wash. I don't know whether the magnet arrangement in those pickups is the same as the original JS pickup, but I sure do like the sound of that guitar. I've been playing it for 36 years. The older ones had alnico magnets and the more recent ones have ceramic magnets, apparently. They have much higher output than the old Gibson ones which allows for a tremendous amount of sonic flexibility.
    Thanks for your answers and sorry for the delay answering !
    I thought my topic had been deleted as the day after i wrote it , i could not find it anymore on the forum but maybe it is because i just registered the day i posted that topic and the admins might have wanted to control it before putting it online on the forum.

    When you say the " more recent ones " , starting from what year ( more or less ) do you speak about ?

    Do you mean the 70's ones ?

  6. #5
    Here is the picture of the pickup installed on the 61 L7-C i was proposed .
    Are there any details that would help identify the year(s) it was built ?

    if it was made in the first part of the 60's ( not the very early 60's as i understood they were built with that Tortoise shell plate ) between 65 and 70 or between 1970 and 1979 .

    I don
    .t know if Gibson kept on producing this pickup after the end of the Johnny Smith guitar production in 1979 i believe ( correct me if i am wrong ).

    I have have several Gibson humbucker pickups from different eras , some that were stock on some guitars i bought ( like some 50's ES-175 with one PAF or one P90 , some P90's on some 54-55 Les Paul Gold top, some early patent pu on a 64 SG standard ...etc ) and quite a few pairs of Gibson pickups i bought more than 10 years ago, from some 58 to 60 PAFs , some early and mid 60's Patent PUs and later ones made between 65 and 70 T Tops and pre TTops , as for some P90's from different eras , from the 50's to the late 60's that i bought as well .
    All have something interesting but the older ones have something particular that i like so if i have ro buy an L7-C , i am curious to know from what era could be the Johnny Smith pu.

    I would prefer a 50's L7-C as i usualy prefer rounder / bigger necks ( that said, the neck is not ridiculously thin either , just not the usual 50's round neck ) but it is not everyday that you can put your hands on an old L7 in very good shape , so i am interested in it .
    Also , maybe the fact to do not have a neck that is really big , might help to play some jazz chords ( a type of music i like but which i am not used to play , so i don't have much experience playing it ) .



    Johnny Smith Pickup Evolution - Material used to build it and tone?-4f0a4056-208d-4cc6-832b-d6ac6a834a13-jpeg

  7. #6
    I just saw that the JS guitar was discontinued in 1989 , not in 1979 , so that pickup could have been built anywhere between the early / mid 60's ( after the Tortoise shell plate model) , to 1989 , so i suppose there must be some differences between those PUs depending on the era they were built , especialy if there were some built with ceramic PUs ( what i am not really interested in !) .

    By the way , are there really some tone difference between the 50's L7-C and the very early 60's ones ?

    I always tend to think that the big necks , have more rigidity than the thinner ones and then the better is the tone and sound projection , although each guitar has its own voice and things are more complicated than that but i tend to think the bigger the neck , the less it will interfere with the strings vibrations .

    Are the 50's and 60's L5-C and L7-C , all one piece maple necks or are some made with 3 pieces necks ?

    i don't know really well these L5-C / L7-C guitars ( as i never had one ) compared to some ES-175 .
    i had bought several very nice books about Gibson ( including one about L5 guitars ) and Fender guitars ( and about vintage amps ) but i had a flood at home and most of my books were damaged unfortunately ...

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricsky;[URL="tel:1247772"
    1247772[/URL]]…Are the 50's and 60's L5-C and L7-C , all one piece maple necks or are some made with 3 pieces ...
    Post-war versions of these two models, as well as several other arch top models, were originally built with three piece necks, then changed to five piece necks.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricsky
    Are the 50's and 60's L5-C and L7-C , all one piece maple necks or are some made with 3 pieces necks ?
    my 1953 L7 has a 3 piece neck ....

    Johnny Smith Pickup Evolution - Material used to build it and tone?-img_2578-jpg

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricsky
    Hi,

    I search for some information about the Johnny Smith pickup and its possible evolution from the early '60s to the late '70s.

    I know there was some evolution in the material used to build the Gibson PAF pickups , then the early Patent PUs and late, the T-Tops in the late '60s, so I wonder if there was an evolution as well in the way the Johnny Smith PU was built and the material used to build it.
    Later on Gibson equipped the high(er) end guitars like the LeGrand or Citation with a PU called BJB which is supposed to be a Johnny Smith PU without polepieces. In addition to that, the LeeRitenour Signature L5 version with floater comes with a similar (if not the same) PU which does have polepieces. To my ears the BJB sounds somewhat harsh, i much prefer the slightly darker sounding version with the polepieces. Maybe the possibility to adjust the height of the polepieces partly deceives my ears, as this allows to manipulate the balance between higher and lower strings, resulting in an illusion of a darker PU ......