View Poll Results: Which guitar tone do you prefer out of these two examples?
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- 31. You may not vote on this poll
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"Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."
Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
Now wheres that damn salesman when you need him
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01-26-2023 08:28 AM
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This is so exciting!!!! Let's have a couple more votes for A.
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Many who named a preference in the posts didn't vote. I wonder why.
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Because polls are silly and/or because people don’t follow instructions. Originally Posted by Vihar
Many who named a preference in the posts didn't vote. I wonder why.
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My wife says that a lot……… Originally Posted by Vihar
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Interesting. That's the first recording of one of the KP archtops that I didn't think was spectacular. My guess is that style just isn't the best for them...
I'm surprised anybody could have thought the second recording was an archtop...so much bass!
(I thought they were both going to be flattops-- the first like a 00 size and the second a jumbo)
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Dang.
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I didn't actually say anything about what I thought the guitars were. I heard steel strings on both, and differences in timbre between the two, but beyond that I didn't have a guess because the question was about preference not identification. My guess would have been a flattop and an archtop engineered to sound like a flattop, based on your hint that they're two different types of guitar, but I wouldn't be able to tell you which is which.
It's hard to unsee what is seen, so that bias may be creeping in, but in retrospect the Parker seems a bit more archtop-y by virtue of having less bass and narrower dynamics (which I allude to in my comment). I think one of the confounders here is that the recordings are not done the same way. There's more room tone in A than B (which also allude to). This suggests some difference in mic placement, type, or pickup pattern, plus the video shows that they're played in two different physical places.Last edited by John A.; 01-26-2023 at 01:42 PM.
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The noise floor in the Parker's recording is higher, you can hear a constant hiss in the background, the room sound is much more audible as well. While the two places seem to be different, these observations lead me to believe that acoustically it's a relatively quieter guitar.
Here's how Michael Watts records acoustic guitars:
One of the two Gefell M300 microphones is visible in the Parker's video, but since his camera was set differently and close to the guitar/playing hand, none of the mics are visible in the Turnstone video. Still, I doubt he recorded that particular guitar differently.
If you have some doubts, ask him in the comments, I'm sure he'll gladly answer you with the details.
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Some archtops sound like a flattop and some flattops sound like an archtop. Every piece of wood is different and every builder has design components that influence sound a particular way.
My takeaway from this thread? A Parker archtop is not on my wish list. YMMV
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I wouldn't get too bent out of shape. All these experiments have shown me is that certain guitars are better for certain things. Which is great, because I like having a bunch of guitars around.
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In a couple of months, I”m getting a very specially acoustic archtop built by Erch Solomon. He’s great! It will have to have a decent bass response and still be light like as possible becuase it will his vision of the Brahms guitar: 8 strings (the usual 6 plus Lenny Breau’s High A and George v Eps low A). He’s making it walnut back and sides. By way of en example, in ol Sonoma county, Ribbekke is making making an acoustic bass guitar with walnut. That seems to bring out the bass frequencies, best. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
If you want to check it out, when it’s finished, let me know. I know you live in the Bay.
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For $30,000 it's a bargain (or for $60,000? Here's a used one: Ken Parker Archtops Crane *Cm493 | eBay)
"The acoustic archtop is the most versatile form of acoustic guitar", according to Ken Parker (scroll down a bit): Ken Parker Archtops - Finest Archtop Guitars
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No one wants the winner, the Turnstone TM?
Meet one of the builders:
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To my ears it was obvious that A was an Archtop and B was a flat top. Of course I can safely say that, now the results are in.
That is unless you're tricking me and in which case, I have the right to change my mind
P.s That is not the way I would mic a Parker. Due to their being no holes, you should put the mic facing down into the only opening on the body.
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Looks like a guitar played by someone who says they play "fingerstyle guitar" and turn their nose up at people who use a pick
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I knew you, Tal_175 and Jeff were in the ballpark, you guys got good ears. Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
To my ears it was obvious that A was an Archtop and B was a flat top. Of course I can safely say that, now the results are in.
That is unless you're tricking me and in which case, I have the right to change my mind
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Looks like it's from the Ervin Somogyi school so to say. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Looks like a guitar played by someone who says they play "fingerstyle guitar" and turn their nose up at people who use a pick
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Parker doesn't use F-holes because it destroys the integrity of the carved arch. The more integrity the arch has the thinner and more responsive he can make the top. Thus the better acoustic properties.
That is why he puts the opening towards the player because it doesn't disturb the top and the player is the one who's supposed to enjoy the damn thing.
Long gone are the days when you had to whack out 4 to the bar as loud as possible. An acoustic guitar now should only be interesting to the person playing it, if you want it to reach its acoustic apex.
If you then mic it front on, you're not going to capture its true sonic capabilities.
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Darn, I just bought a new Eastman flattop. I wonder if Turnstone will trade me straight for that. I mean it's a nice guitar, so why not? Originally Posted by Vihar
No one wants the winner, the Turnstone TM?
Meet one of the builders:
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I was thinking of posting this Martin dread for the 2nd sound sample, but I went with something closer to the OM in Part I.
Still a healthy tone in spite of the bare fingers fingerstyle.
Regarding the Turnstone, I really liked that very last part with the ringing overtones, they weren't really audible throughout the song until the very end. Still, I prefer the tone of a steel string played with a pick.
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Ooh, what'd ya get? Originally Posted by John A.
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I recently purchased 2 Breedlove’s, one of which is made from fully sustainable Eco friendly Myrtlewood. I’ve never had a better playing guitar with rich, warm, wood tones! Originally Posted by John A.
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Agreed, the Parker is probably quieter. He does say in the video that he tweaks mic placement according to the specific guitar. Listening to a bunch of his videos, they all sound quite similar to me. It seems to me that his goal is "make each guitar sound like me" more than it's "record each guitar as accurately as possible so as to accentuate the distinctions between them." A lot of people who demo guitars do this (e.g., Greg Koch or that GregsGuitars guy who has a bazillion demos on youtube); their stuff all has a kind of signature to it. That aside, just by virtue of most of Watt's demos being steel strings + nails + DADGAD, there's going to be a strong common signature. Originally Posted by Vihar
For more archtop vs flattop difference/similarity this guy is interesting to check out.
Howard Emerson - YouTube
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I got an ac308ce-LTD. It's their take on the "grand concert" style (Taylor 12 series). Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
AC308CE - Eastman Guitars
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