I love my Ibanez AS93...except the finish...what else should I look at?

[cbgrey]

I currently have an Ibanez AS93 semi-hollow (ES-335-like) and I like pretty much everything about it...especially the neck...but I really don't like the type of finish on the guitar. It's super heavy and plasticy. I prefer guitars with much thinner, softer finishes.

What else should I look at? Do the higher end Ibanez models (AS113 or AS2000) use a lighter finish? What about other brands?

If my budget were up to $2000 (used), where should I look?

[Vihar]

If you really like everything about it except the finish, have it refinished.

[cbgrey]

Hm, interesting thought. Not sure it's worth it for this relatively inexpensive guitar but definitely something to consider.

[Jimmy blue note]

Hm, interesting thought. Not sure it's worth it for this relatively inexpensive guitar but definitely something to consider.

Definitely don't go through the expense and time for a refinish. It's easy to recommend a simple solution, reality is a different story.
Low end Ibanez guitars are made in factories that apply poly in a relatively heavy coat. There's not a lot you can do. For the price point you mention alternatively, you can get quite a lot, but try them out. There must be something about the 93 you like and things like the neck, balance, whatever appeals to you, may be quite different even in an instrument that's more expensive and prestigious.
Do try the higher end Ibanez models, even a second hand Gibson with a nitro finish can be had if you look around. But do try them out. It's what allows you to make music effortlessly that makes something invaluable for you. You will know.
If it's the slick feel of the neck, you can change the tactile feel with some very fine sandpaper lightly buffed to the back of the neck (1000 grit range) and that'll give you a different feel without removing finish.

A serious answer about a re-finish: That poly is thick. It'll take a lot of elbow work to remove it cleanly. It also must be removed completely from corners, joints and tight curves. All really tricky work to do without leaving splotches and gouges. Even if you manage to do that, applying a thinner finish on an instrument stripped like that will give you a guitar that feels quite different. The neck will feel thinner. You'll notice. It won't be the same guitar.
You'll need to remove all the hardware and electronics. On a semi with the jack and grounding wired so deeply tucked in there, that's a LOT of work.

No. I'd strongly dissuade you from even considering refinishing a 93. Look into new and used Ibanez Artstar line guitars, try out Epiphones and see what's out there. Different Ibanez models are made in different factories; not all poly is created equally. You have many options.

[Christian Miller]

Not much to add except that the feel of my Gibson 335 compared to Ibanezes was a deciding factor for me. I’m willing to accept that this makes me a bit of a mug in terms of fit, finish and build quality, but I do love my 335

[Vihar]

Hm, interesting thought. Not sure it's worth it for this relatively inexpensive guitar but definitely something to consider.

It's not the name on the headstock, you know.

Speaking of the headstock, the AS93 (and most everything except Gibsons) have a scarf joint headstock, so if it accidentally gets hit or falls, it won't break like a Gibson.

[cbgrey]

Definitely don't go through the expense and time for a refinish. It's easy to recommend a simple solution, reality is a different story.
Low end Ibanez guitars are made in factories that apply poly in a relatively heavy coat. There's not a lot you can do. For the price point you mention alternatively, you can get quite a lot, but try them out. There must be something about the 93 you like and things like the neck, balance, whatever appeals to you, may be quite different even in an instrument that's more expensive and prestigious.
Do try the higher end Ibanez models, even a second hand Gibson with a nitro finish can be had if you look around. But do try them out. It's what allows you to make music effortlessly that makes something invaluable for you. You will know.
If it's the slick feel of the neck, you can change the tactile feel with some very fine sandpaper lightly buffed to the back of the neck (1000 grit range) and that'll give you a different feel without removing finish.

A serious answer about a re-finish: That poly is thick. It'll take a lot of elbow work to remove it cleanly. It also must be removed completely from corners, joints and tight curves. All really tricky work to do without leaving splotches and gouges. Even if you manage to do that, applying a thinner finish on an instrument stripped like that will give you a guitar that feels quite different. The neck will feel thinner. You'll notice. It won't be the same guitar.
You'll need to remove all the hardware and electronics. On a semi with the jack and grounding wired so deeply tucked in there, that's a LOT of work.

No. I'd strongly dissuade you from even considering refinishing a 93. Look into new and used Ibanez Artstar line guitars, try out Epiphones and see what's out there. Different Ibanez models are made in different factories; not all poly is created equally. You have many options.

Thank you for this thoughtful and thorough reply. I definitely need to get my hands on more semis. Just not finding too many in my area. I may need to order from someplace like GC with a liberal return policy.

Do you know if the Artstars have thinner finishes?

[John A.]

I currently have an Ibanez AS93 semi-hollow (ES-335-like) and I like pretty much everything about it...especially the neck...but I really don't like the type of finish on the guitar. It's super heavy and plasticy. I prefer guitars with much thinner, softer finishes.

What else should I look at? Do the higher end Ibanez models (AS113 or AS2000) use a lighter finish? What about other brands?

If my budget were up to $2000 (used), where should I look?

You might be able to find one of these at around that price point:

- Ibanez AS 180 (basically the same thing as a MIJ AS-200 with less bling).

- Any of several different Eastman semi-hollows

- Seventy Seven Exrubato (the MIJ versions, which are no longer made, not the current JT versions)

- ES 335 Studio, or perhaps an ES 333

- 1990s Guild Starfire IV

[DawgBone]

Not much to add except that the feel of my Gibson 335 compared to Ibanezes was a deciding factor for me. I’m willing to accept that this makes me a bit of a mug in terms of fit, finish and build quality, but I do love my 335

Yep you're a mug! Spoiled first world English guy! Kidding of course. I prefer the feel of a lacquer finish as well but I actually have grown to appreciate those plastic-y poly finishes. Poly is the latest most high tech paint. It is just plain tough for a gigging instrument. Yeah they don't wear as nicely but I don't have to remove black gum from my instrument using ronsonol lighter fluid after the Texas summer is over either. For a workhorse I think it's superior. I sold my well loved lacquered ES-333 and kept my urethane Edwards E-SA because aside from not being lacquered the Edwards is the superior instrument. Have you ever seen a guitar that has literally had the lacquer played off it? Some people dig the drug-behind-my-chevy SRV strat look but on a Gibson it looks like hell. My Gibson looked pretty cool after about 600 gigs but would look pretty bad, post apocalyptic, after a few thousand.

I've tried to take a more utilitarian approach towards gear these days and avoid making every detail a fetish, which is costly. A guitar should be viewed the same way as I view a wrench, does it effectively turn the bolt and get the job done? Will a lacquered guitar earn me more money when I'm gigging? For me that means paint doesn't really matter.

[Jimmy blue note]

- Ibanez AS 180 (basically the same thing as a MIJ AS-200 with less bling).

YES!! If you can find an early one on the used market, with the JP20 type deco headstock, it's a joy to play. Feels exactly like Scofield's AS-200 (I've worked on John's guitar and it was he who recommended the 180). The neck feels really great and as mentioned in my post, you can change the tactile feel if you wanted.


These will be different from the 180's made subsequently in Korea, but those are still exceptional guitars. If you can find them on the used market.

[cbgrey]

You might be able to find one of these at around that price point:

- Ibanez AS 180 (basically the same thing as a MIJ AS-200 with less bling).

- Any of several different Eastman semi-hollows

- Seventy Seven Exrubato (the MIJ versions, which are no longer made, not the current JT versions)

- ES 335 Studio, or perhaps an ES 333

- 1990s Guild Starfire IV

Great rundown, thank you.

[cbgrey]

YES!! If you can find an early one on the used market, with the JP20 type deco headstock, it's a joy to play. Feels exactly like Scofield's AS-200 (I've worked on John's guitar and it was he who recommended the 180). The neck feels really great and as mentioned in my post, you can change the tactile feel if you wanted.

These will be different from the 180's made subsequently in Korea, but those are still exceptional guitars. If you can find them on the used market.

Excellent direction and something fun to hunt down. As a fan of Sco's I'll take the recommendation even more seriously

[Jimmy blue note]

Do you know if the Artstars have thinner finishes?

Yes, they tend to. But again, Ibanez/Hoshino can and do change the factory of manufacture sometimes mid run without any indication in model nomenclature or catalogue description. The Artstar name tends towards the higher end and thinner poly to a greater degree and Artcore can give you a similar feel but made in countries that have 'different' build standards.
Ibanez does not embrace lacquer as a finish.
There are differing qualities of poly. When applied heavily, they can exhibit cracks and checks and those cannot be amalgamated into a new appearance.
Try the polishing grade sandpaper. If that doesn't work for you, you can always polish it back to a mirror finish with finer paper and polishing compounds.
I loved my AS93. When I worked for Ibanez they had one in the seconds room and I got it for kicks and a few bucks (worker buy day was like Christmas) and it turned out to be a great workhouse. I put Duncans in it and passed it to a friend who uses it to this day on gigs. He loves it.

[rsclosson]

I foolishly let a student talk me out of my AS-93. It was a fantastic guitar. If I still had it, I would leave the finish alone and just lightly "sand" the neck with the finest steel wool available to get a better feel.

If you find an AS-180, keep the 93 as a backup.

[Tal_175]

I don't think I've ever played an AS200. How are they different than ES 335's w.r.t. tonal characteristics?

[supersoul]

Some people dig the drug-behind-my-chevy SRV strat look

This quote made my day!

I think you just gotta accept the poly finish or move on. Maybe you can matte it out with some steelwool sandpaper, but poly finish is really, really, really hard. It does not come off easily. Even naval jelly just makes it bubble a little bit. For better or worse it's there to stay.

I actually like the way it feels on a neck because it doesn't get all gummed up at all.

[John A.]

I don't think I've ever played an AS200. How are they different than ES 335's w.r.t. tonal characteristics?

I tend to think all semis sound pretty much the same (or at least have substantial overlap), but I once saw Sco use both his AS200 and his old 335, and they sounded quite different. Honestly, I thought the 335 sounded much better -- it had a degree of warmth, complexity, and dynamics that the AS200 just did not have (at least for Sco on that gig). But Sco played it for a tune, made a face, and switched back to the AS200, and it's clear from 40-years of usage which he prefers. I don't know exactly what that tells you. I haven't actually tried an AS200, but I have tried an AS93 and an AS103. Those struck me as quite a bit brighter than the 335's I've played. I almost bought an AS180 (without having tried it) some years back, but couldn't get the seller down to a price could afford at the time. I wound up with a D'Angelico, which to my ears sounds very much like a 335 (and I have played it side by side with several different ones). But it has a relatively thick poly finish, so I don't think the OP would be interested.

[cbgrey]

If you find an AS-180, keep the 93 as a backup.

Great advice especially since I really don't think I'd want to get rid of the AS93 I have. Thank you.

[Little Jay]

The finish on my AF-55TF (cheapest archtop in their catalogue) is not thick at all. Maybe the satin finishes are applied thinner? I polished it to a shine myself btw. It doesn't have that plasticky feel, although it feels very different from the nitro on my Gibson ES-333 (which also came as satin that I polished to a shine).

You could try to sand with very fine sandpaper, like 1500 or better, 2000 grit. It will probably feel a lot less plasticky and give a nice worn look, like a worn vintage finish, but it won't really be satin either.

(some will say to use 000 steel wool but that's way to coarse and will leave scratches... ask me how I know ;-) )

[DawgBone]

The finish on my AF-55TF (cheapest archtop in their catalogue) is not thick at all. Maybe the satin finishes are applied thinner? I polished it to a shine myself btw. It doesn't have that plasticky feel, although it feels very different from the nitro on my Gibson ES-333 (which also came as satin that I polished to a shine).

You could try to sand with very fine sandpaper, like 1500 or better, 2000 grit. It will probably feel a lot less plasticky and give a nice worn look, like a worn vintage finish, but it won't really be satin either.

(some will say to use 000 steel wool but that's way to coarse and will leave scratches... ask me how I know ;-) )

Funny you polished your 333 to a shine. I did the same to mine after I bought it in '15. Zymol, a rag, and some elbow grease. Of course by the time I sold it the back of the neck was very highly polished, starting to polish thru the paint actually, lol.

[Jimmy blue note]

I don't think I've ever played an AS200. How are they different than ES 335's w.r.t. tonal characteristics?

Ibanez has a harder neck, maple and ebony, and the pickups have a definite cutting treble edge you have to watch for if you want a mellow Wes type sound. The Gibson's mahogany neck is warm, resonant and coupled with a PAF in neck position has a really round sound that invites playing to my hands.
I remember when Sco's 335 went south. It was an affliction with many Gibson 335's I've seen, the inordinately long stretch of mahogany on those necks exacerbates any tendencies of that tropical hardwood to find a twist. He had in irreparable twist in the neck and he was bummed over it. That was about the time of Bar Talk and Who's Who. You can hear the warmth of his lines...and on the German LIVE album too. But he was getting famous around then too, playing with EVERYBODY from Mingus to his hot group with Beirach. Ibanez approached him and a free guitar from a company in its building peak (early 80's) and an endorsement deal, well that was the pathway to history.
When he first had that guitar, he was still Jones'n (grieving) for the 335 sound, but very soon his playing was getting edgier and the new Ibanez offered a range of expression and linear definition that was unknown in jazz. It became his sound and he kept that guitar for decades of HARD use, a testament to the quality of build. That's his sound.

I tend to think all semis sound pretty much the same (or at least have substantial overlap), but I once saw Sco use both his AS200 and his old 335, and they sounded quite different..

As far as semi hollows, they firmly stake themselves at different ends of the spectrum. I LOVE the feel of the AS200 and each one I've worked with, set up or repaired (I worked for Ibanez and as an independent luthier) had an uncanny consistency to it. You can kind of count on an AS200 to feel like Scofield's...which is more than I can say for the QC and consistency of 335's which tend to go from Uh Oh to 'Spectacular!'.
I got my AS200 in the early 90's and kept it as a keepsake since I had a close relationship with John, but I DID switch out the pickups to a '59 in the neck and a Pearly Gates in the bridge, as an homage to John's guitars. He tried it once when his guitar was being tended to. He loved it. But the super 58...that's his sound.

I have a AS-180 I also put Duncans in. Yeah everybody who picks that up wants to buy it off me. They are the best kept secrets in semi hollow guitars.

[cbgrey]

I have a AS-180 I also put Duncans in. Yeah everybody who picks that up wants to buy it off me. They are the best kept secrets in semi hollow guitars.

Shhhhh! ;-)

Seriously loved your insight. Thank you.

[Gitfiddler]

@cbgrey...Since you are an Ibanez semi fan, have you considered one of the various JSM models? They are reasonably priced on the used market if one shops around and not in a rush. I've owned a 2001 JSM100 for around 20 years and it never lets me down. The Super 58's sound great and the neck is full, and not sticky. Now there are a few JS variants, but all look like nice pro level instruments.

Another great, but long discontinued Ibanez is their LR10 model. It came with specially wound dedicated pickups that just sing! The neck profile is more medium carve, but still comfortable in my big hands. There's one currently for sale at Dave's Guitar Shop if interested.

Lee Ritenour LR10 '82
– Dave's Guitar Shop

Good hunting!

[cbgrey]

@cbgrey...Since you are an Ibanez semi fan, have you considered one of the various JSM models? They are reasonably priced on the used market if one shops around and not in a rush. I've owned a 2001 JSM100 for around 20 years and it never lets me down. The Super 58's sound great and the neck is full, and not sticky. Now there are a few JS variants, but all look like nice pro level instruments.

Another great, but long discontinued Ibanez is their LR10 model. It came with specially wound dedicated pickups that just sing! The neck profile is more medium carve, but still comfortable in my big hands. There's one currently for sale at Dave's Guitar Shop if interested.

Good hunting!

I hadn't looked too closely at the JSMs for various reasons but I'll take another look. And Lee Ritenour...wow, I haven't thought about him in decades. I didn't know (or forgot) he had an Ibanez model. Will look at that too.

Thank you

[cbgrey]

Looks like Ritenour was actually involved in the development of the AS200...which Scofield loved/loves. Interesting.