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Hello dear forum members!
Because I have a heavy joint wear in my left wrist, a few guitarist friends and my luthier, who I saw today suggested massively that I should change from my beloved 12's Rotosund Flatwound Monel strings to much thinner ones on my guitars if I dont wanna see the hand surgeon soon. And I dont want to... Rotosund doesnt have thinner jazz strings, and I am opened to any suggestins for 9's and 10's jazz strings on 2 electric and 1 acoustic full hollowbody archtops.
I found these, few of my students use this brand on nylon gutiars, but I have absolutely no experince with these on jazz archtops.
Amazon.co.uk
Thanks for any inputs in advance,
MrBlues
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01-21-2023 03:04 PM
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I have used DR Pure Blues 10's on archtops with excellent results.
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Here are a few of the lightest flatwound sets from a few makers:
La Bella Jazz Flats 20XPL - Stainless Steel - Extra Light - .009-.039
Curt Mangan 14002 - Stainless Flatwound - .009-.042
GHS Precision Flats - Extra Light - .009-.042
Thomastik-Infeld JS110-Nickel Flat Wound Round Core - .010-.044
Galli Jazz Flat Electric JF1046 - Stainless steel hex core - .010-.046
Pyramid Gold Chrome-Nickel Flat Wound Round Core - Electric Light .010-.0465
D'Addario XL Chromes ECG23 - Extra Light - .010-.048
Last edited by Hammertone; 01-21-2023 at 08:16 PM.
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I'm using the LaBella 20XPL flatwound set that Hammertone mentioned. I put them on a Guild hollowbody but wound up putting them on my main gigging semi-hollow because I liked them so much. I replaced the 9 and the 11 with a 10 and 12 because they were just too slinky. I don't have strong wrists/hands and do a lot of bending so a fairly light set is a necessity for me. They fit the bill and sound real good too. Plus they have purple wraps on the ends which no doubt make them sound even better.
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You have to take care of hands. I know from personal experience. Carpal Tunnel Syndrome really f’ed up my life. Super bad.
I know that we all search out tone, but there are other way to compensate for guitar strings. My hands have always been small, I have always used light strings. Except when I went up a set gauge, right before CTS. I was easily playing 8 hours a day. There were other things that lead to CTS. I do believe that the string tension did have a negative impact on my hands.
I use DR Blues 9s for guitars that need as much warmth as possible. I use D’Addario EXL 9s for guitars that need a little more brightness. I have used D’Addario NYXL 8s. They are the only 8s I like but they are pretty zingy sounding.
One thing to keep in mind is if you go too low, you might be working your hands more to keep the string from not bending on chords. An overly light touch, can also fatigue the hand. (Remember the scalped necks from the late 80s. To my limited knowledge, I am pretty sure that they lead to some hand problems for people. I never used one, so I do not know from personal experience).
I am not a doctor, but glucosamine has made a world of difference for me. I went from being able to play for a few months and then my hands would crash for a month (or more). All the progress I made in the playing time, I lost in the down time. Now the down times can still happen but they are not long. I did have some mild side effects from glucosamine. I did not even notice them until someone told me about them. They have seemed to go away. I can not remember what they were.
Originally when I first had CTS, I drove down to San Francisco and meet with a physician who was a specialist for treating musicians. He had me play, to check my posture and hands. He said I was perfect. He also suggested that I make sure I am drinking enough water. Again I am not a doctor.
Also keep in mind string tension. Gauge is related to tension but some sets of x have more or less tension then other sets of x.
Last thing I just remembered. I can not play in cold. (Since I now live in Fresno Ca, it is more easily managed then in the past) I also wear some mittens that have the fingers free, to keep my hands warm. I might look weird, but I do not care. Music is very important to me. I think only once some has asked me about my mittens. They are easily purchased now days because of cell phones.
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This may not be the most welcome advice .... you may benefit in the long run by changing your guitar .... not your strings.
The tension needed for an archtop to sound great is levels above that for a telecaster or strat or ... you finish the sentiment.
As a whole we tend to evaluate our playing, skills and rewards based on our best past experiences .... when we held the world at bay and
could stretch and reach chords and notes that mere mortals could not touch. A least in our best dream states. Aging involves compromise
and the saying that adaptation is a key to survival may apply here.
Can you find a low tension instrument that will allow you to make those difficult chords arpeggios licks without stress ... they exist and
it may be a path that will allow you years of pain free joy and expression that you may not find by just changing your strings.
St Bede ... I lived in Fresno 20+ years ago and was blessed to take lessons from Juan Serrano .... he had severe damage to his hands and
had multiple surgeries to correct that damage ... all from great technique but the reality is that our hands fingers muscles and ligaments were
not designed/developed to deal with the stresses that the guitar and its technical erudition places on them.
But that is the core life of any athlete/musician ... our bodies age and we need to find a game that is worth playing to the end.
We just buried my 93 year old father-in-law ... a Lutheran pastor for 50+ years who played guitar and sang for his congregants ....
he had an old Korean nylon string guitar that he was given ... he had the strings nut and tuners changed in 2000 according to a work order I found in the guitar case
... he would not let me touch his guitar or restring it ... no one in the family wanted it so we
brought it home ... over time it had detuned to C sharp ... but that allowed him to continue to play for years in spite of severe neurologic
disease and muscle atrophy.
I love Pure Blues ... replaced NYXL 10's on a PRS as they were a bit bright ... now have a lovely tone. Electric guitars were a compromise for me but I realized years ago that
my beloved L5 was built for someone much bigger and blessed that I am.
Truth be told ... pick the axe that allows you the freedom to play at your best ... speed dexterity and longevity ... living with past goals
and ideals will be a path to frustration ... and may not allow your true enjoyment and growth to blossom as you age. Tim Lerch, Ted Greene
Les Paul and a host of younger masters of the Jazz guitar have found fulfillment in a "lesser" instrument.
Best wishes that you find a way to extend your playing and growth until you are called home.
BobLast edited by docmoore; 01-21-2023 at 07:50 PM.
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TI flat wound 10's, but bump up the high E and B as much as you're comfortable with.
Originally Posted by mrblues
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Jim Hall used 10s as did Ed Bickert. I rarely hear complaints about their tones. I use 11s and I really like SIT strings (Martin Monels on my flattop). I use the S1150 set on solidbodies and archtops, but have put the 10s on a Tele with good results. I haven't tried 10s on my archtops. I like a wound 3rd, not sure there are any 10s that offer this (however, having three plain strings and three wound results in a classical guitar-like distinction in timbre and much reduced string noise; that might be a good trade-off). When I was younger, I believed you had to use 13s to have a good tone; I went to 12s about 25 years ago and to 11s about a decade ago, and in the case of the latter have found that I think it gives the guitar a little more open and a little less choked sound. I think the predilections for 13s among jazz guitarist harks back to the days of bashing away on an unamplified instrument in a big band, where those big strings were necessary to get the volume. With pickups, that really is no longer necessary.
I've been playing for 43 years with no RSI or CTS symptoms and it's not because of great technique. Great (textbook) technique may increase your risk because it makes you more exactly repetitive in your movements. Touch typists are more likely to get CTS than hunt-and-peck typists. Think about classical guitar technique which is designed to lock the musician into a very specific and unchanging position for 8-10 hours a day. We end up with hand and wrist problems, shoulder problems and low back problems due to that position. Precise repetition seems to be bad for us in the long run: carpal tunnel syndrome, other repetitive stress injuries, arthritis, focal motor dystonia, etc.
My hand positions change constantly, the guitar is moving around a bit, etc., which reduces mechanical repetitiveness. It probably looks sloppy as heck, but I think it has helped keep me pretty much injury free throughout my playing career. One other thing: I don't play constantly for hours at a time. I might play two or three songs in a row and then think about things for a couple of minutes. I might play for an hour, put the guitar down for a bio-break or make a cup of tea, then play the guitar for another hour with those little mini breaks. Sometimes I even go a day without playing guitar at all. I can't prove this is helpful in preventing injury, but I believe it is. Preventing injury is one thing, promoting healing is the other side of that coin and time is one of the healing factors.
I can't say that I practice this myself very well, but I think it is also likely that a generally healthy lifestyle that reduces pro-inflammation factors can also be helpful in warding off these kinds of problems as well as many other health issues. Promoting good microbiome (gut) health, reducing pro-inflammatory foods, increasing flavonol intake (fruits, vegetables, tea, etc.), regular exercise, avoiding obesity, etc., is really important on many fronts. Stress reduction, meditation, yoga (which I don't do because I find it very boring) may also pay dividends in terms of physical health.
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Originally Posted by DawgBone
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When I was studying saxophone with a very famous reed pedagogue. He said, too many players get hung up on the myth of needing heavy reeds to get their tone. You can get just as great a tone out of a light reed, it just takes *control*.
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I have wrist pain also but I just bought a set of Gibson nickel flatwound 11s and so far I Like them
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There probably is something to this idea. I say "probably" not to doubt the quoted poster, but because I can't claim personal knowledge to speak with absolute confidence of my own. What I can say, and the reason I am even posting, is that in my personal experience, there are guitars that seem to offer resistance, making it a bit more work to play them, and other guitars that just seem to flow easily. I am not sure how best to describe it. Originally Posted by docmoore
Being almost 70 now, I am finding that playing acoustic (flat top) guitars, no matter how well set up, the resistance they offer seems to be becoming a bit much for me. I really want to avoid causing damage of any kind to my hands that would force me to take time off from daily playing. I have found the same with a number of the various archtops I have owned.
The best playing, with the absolute least resistance in a guitar that I have personally found is my Gibson Citation. Now that doesn't mean that everybody who shares this concern about the hands has to get a Citation. It does mean that it is possible to find guitars that really are almost too easy to play (which is a good thing).
I have read/heard all manner of discussion about neck angle, string height, zero fret, and on and on. Not being a luthier or guitar repair tech, I can't comment on these things from personal knowledge and experience, but I can guess that how easily a guitar plays is likely a factor of several things working together (or against each other).
Using lighter gauge strings seems an obvious step in the right direction, but I suspect it is only a part of the solution. Also, not all archtops will sound good with light gauge strings. Fortunately, my Citation seems really responsive, but again, it can't be the only guitar that has that acoustic property. A Campellone would certainly be much less expensive (though I can't fathom why that should be), and I am sure there are others.
I also have an Eastman FV-880 (Frank Vignola) model and it is a nice archtop in the high $3k range, so a nice guitar by any standards. However, it has more of that "resistance" than my Citation, though there is nothing wrong with the guitar - just a different feel is all. I suppose if I brought both to a skilled luthier, s/he could take all kinds of measurements and come up with some explanation. But to me, it is simply a matter of playing a bunch of archtops to find one that just feels right and is easy on the hands.
I have heard luthiers say that until a guitar is finished, they don't really know how it will sound, and building two guitars in the same way, same woods, etc., will still result in different sounding and playing instruments. So it seems to me that all you can do is just play a bunch until you find one that plays really easy and sounds good.
I hope all this rambling says something useful.
Tony
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I do not think a new guitar is necessary to combat hand pain unless things are so bad that one needs to have a 24 inch scale guitar strung with 7's. Most guitars can be set up to play very easily with light strings and a super low action. OK, perhaps a 26.25 scale Gypsy guitar or a 27 scale Baritone guitar might still be a bit tough on the hands, for sure I would say stay away from those.
A 24.75 scale guitar set up with round core 10's and a low action is a pretty damn easy to play instrument. IMO, if you are experiencing hand pain playing a guitar like this, you need to A) see a doctor and B) give up playing for a long while to allow your hand to heal.
A short scale, low action and light tension/light gauge strings can fix a LOT of hand pain problem. It has for me.
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Last year I went from Thomastik 12 flats to 11-49 Elixir Polywebs on my Aria SuperV copy and tele, just as an experiment, and I'm really enjoying them. Great tone. Not much finger scritch thanks to the coating. I've got a single 12 ready to swap in for the 11 but haven't felt the need yet.
Worth a look. Tension relatively low.
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Chrome .010s
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If you're alright with tuning down to D Standard, it adds a fair bit of slack. It also turns the guitar into a Bb instrument and allows you to read tenor sax / trumpet music.
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Where I'm having problems is with my Martin with 13 pb strings Just bought some Magma 12 pb Flatwound and so far I like 'em.
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A few thoughts that might relate:
1. A trapeze tailpiece makes the action feel softer than a bar tailpiece, all other things being equal. I think this is noticeable, but I could be wrong.
2. Ask your doctor about your Vitamin D level. It's possible to take too much, so it should be monitored with blood tests. Low D, according to one hand surgeon, is associated with hand pain.
3. I use 11-42. I buy sets of 009's, toss the 009 string and buy packs of single 13's on Amazon. I end up with 11 13 16 22 32 42. I can tell flats from rounds, but string brand doesn't make much difference to me. Maybe I should look into it more.
4. The right carve of neck makes a big difference to me.
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