The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    Gibson used 300k pots in their guitars for humbuckers and P90s in the late 50s
    No, they didn't. They used Centralabs Linear 500K for volume, 500K audio for tone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    The use of 500k pots came later as distortion became the normal sound for guitar
    You've got backwards. When they used the new p'ups known as "T-Top", they went down up to 300K volume, 150K tone. That's what *I* had on my '68 LP Custom 2-p'up Black Beauty RI, aka "fretless wonder".

    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    The early PAF pickups were underwound by modern standards
    The PAF pickup was, and still is, the standard. 5,000 turns of AWG#42 PE wire per bobbin.

    For the record, from the McCarty's "golden era" til today, the Gibson Co. went bunkrupt, dismanteled, bought out, reorganized and set up again exactly THREE times, and every time had to start from scratch, copying their own models as the actual blueprints were gone.

    HTH,

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak
    No, they didn't. They used Centralabs Linear 500K for volume, 500K audio for tone.


    You've got backwards. When they used the new p'ups known as "T-Top", they went down up to 300K volume, 150K tone. That's what *I* had on my '68 LP Custom 2-p'up Black Beauty RI, aka "fretless wonder".


    The PAF pickup was, and still is, the standard. 5,000 turns of AWG#42 PE wire per bobbin.
    According to Gibson's published documents, 300k tone & volume was the norm during the P90 and early PAF years.

    The PAF was notorious for having a random number of winds- could be 5000, could be 4000, could be 6000. The winds were also frequently uneven. The standard was aspirational at best. By modern standards the PAF is underwound compared to most humbuckers on the market (using the not-very-accurate-for-rating-output DC resistance measurement). You could find PAFs at 6k and at 8k.
    Last edited by Cunamara; 01-09-2016 at 05:31 PM.

  4. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by icr
    Capacitors don't have any current going 'through' them. The capacitor modulates an ebb and flow resonance of electrical charge from the pickup's oscillating waveform. This is very audible. Basically, when activated, the capacitor is in direct contact with the signal and if you can't hear its effects, it is probably wired wrong or faulty.
    I never said "current," if you're referring to my post.

    You don't hear the tone cap, sorry, that's just the way the electronics works. You hear what didn't get shunted through the cap to ground. The signal going through the tone cap is never heard and thus the cap is never heard. If you want to argue that you're hearing the cap indirectly, fine, even though you aren't. The signal that goes to the amp doesn't give a flying monkey's left buttock whether the cap is ceramic, paper in oil, peanut butter and jelly, whatever. The signal that goes through the cap is never heard.

    In some amplifiers there are caps where you do hear the signal that comes through them, such as the bright cap in a tweed circuit. And you would hear the signal coming through the cap in a treble bleed circuit. In both cases I highly doubt the difference between ceramic, PIO, etc., could be discerned as long as the cap's values are equal.

  5. #79

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    I noticed today that the grommet that holds the pu selector switch is degraded.

  6. #80

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    wouldnt have fit anyway..epi uses metric..your switchcraft uses usa imperial spec

    all imperial spec nuts n bolts needed...will prob have to route archtop holes as well to fit usa pots

    cheers

  7. #81

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    I was aware of the need to enlarge the holes by about .035" if I have the right information.

    Here's one account of someone doing this:

    Epiphone Elitist Broadway Upgrade *High Bandwidth Caution* - Gibson Guitar Board

  8. #82

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    A Dremel metal cylinder grinding bit grinds rubber very smoothly and works well to deepen the grommet to get the nut to fit. The inner rim has been ground out here.
    Epiphone Broadway?-file-200-jpg

  9. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    According to Gibson's published documents,
    I've never been able to see an actual purchase order. All I've seen was somebody telling what some obscure, faceless and nameless, now deceased Gibson employee TOLD HIM HE SAW.

    Can you provide a link to those "published documents by Gibson from the '50s" telling pot specs? An actual purchase order will suffice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    The PAF was notorious for having a random number of winds- could be 5000, could be 4000, could be 6000. The winds were also frequently uneven. The standard was aspirational at best. By modern standards the PAF is underwound compared to most humbuckers on the market (using the not-very-accurate-for-rating-output DC resistance measurement). You could find PAFs at 6k and at 8k.
    Yes, this is the hearsay-based, globally accepted folklore consensus, aka urban legend or, more precise a definition, the "myth".

    What I'm answering here come from the facts of my own findings and several of my peers, coming mostly from actual turns counting from dead PAFs, made with better equipment and a greater, more extensive knowledge of the variables involved than in-the-past found literature.

    The actual count was at all times VERY CLOSE to 5,000 turns, being the average variation less than 5%. FYI, industrial tolerance for wire-making is actually greater than that.

    The so big DC readings differences published everywhere, attributed to turn counts, actually come from variations of the wire's actual diameter, also failing to mention at what temperature they've been made, but IME, the biggest unaccounted for variable affecting the readings, is the actual tension at the coil was wound, provided by the machine's felt tensioners, changing with every single change of spool.

    All of this shows not only how useless, but how misguiding is to interpret numbers without knowing the actual variables involved.

    Yet, still to this day, people still talk about how a 7.5K p'up "sounds", or that a 10K p'up has a greater output that a 8K one, without even realizing that a different wire is used, and that a 8K wound with AWG#42 wire will ACTUALLY have about 15% more output than the 10K one, that's wound with AWG#43 wire.

    This is the myth initiated by Di Marzio in the early '70s, when they produced their "Super Distortion" p'up, marketing it having a "whopping" 16K of output!

    Fast-forwarding over 40 years later, people still don't grasp the most basic knowledge about how a magnetic guitar p'up works, making this the hardest-to-die myths in the history of the music industry. A myth many p'up builders use to this very day.

    This is the Internet! Welcome to the new era of misinformation!
    Last edited by LtKojak; 01-10-2016 at 06:42 AM.

  10. #84

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    So I have decided on the Seymour Duncan Seth Lover humbucker for my Epiphone Broadway. I am awaiting delivery of it and of the rubber grommet for the pickup selector switch, and I will have everything I need to re-do all the electronics of this guitar except for the bridge pickup, which for me is just something to plug that hole somebody routed into the top of the guitar ;-)

    I will likely start a new thread when the process kicks off. Since I've never done this before, others of similar inexperience might find it helpful to watch a beginner grope through this.

  11. #85

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    what's in the bridge pick-up? if it's the epiphone stock, I suggest you might has well do it now too . . .
    partly because it sucks & also partly because it's a PITA.

    I know "jazz players don't use the bridge pickup" -- but some do (including me!)

  12. #86

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    I'm with LONGWAYSTOGO on this, get the bridge pickup too. I'm an older guy and if I know one thing about guitars is sooner or later you move them for something else. Get that bridge pickup too, the Seth Lovers are really great and if you go to sell it a lot of cats will go HMMMM SETHS ??. You never recoup all your money invested when you sell it, BUT you'll sure like playing it, and I've found in some settings I needed the neck pickup as the prime input but with a little of the bridge pickup dialed into the mix to un muddy the sound. I never played in clubs or halls. I played twice a month in convalescent homes for 18 years. Sometimes a different piano player, sometimes the place got a new piano. Whatever it was having that "unnecessary" bridge pickup to lighten up my tone sometimes was the difference between me not feeling good about my tone and being really happy with it and that making playing the gig a real joy, which showed in my playing. My fellow bandmates, old people that lived there would wheel up to me and tell "you were good today"... Take it from an old fart man, get that bridge pickup swapped out too...

  13. #87

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    Okay you got me convinced. Also, the old corroded pickup would clash visually with the shiny new one, so might as well match them!

  14. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Okay you got me convinced. Also, the old corroded pickup would clash visually with the shiny new one, so might as well match them!

    I hope you're replacing the whole wiring harness since you're going to have to pull it anyway, and Epi's wiring was never that good. Do everything at once and be done with it.

  15. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop
    I hope you're replacing the whole wiring harness since you're going to have to pull it anyway, and Epi's wiring was never that good. Do everything at once and be done with it.
    Oh yes. I'm pulling everything and replacing it. I have good shielded wire and plan to have it all fresh.

    While I've got the strings off, I'm also going to do any work on the frets and fingerboard that might be needful. This guitar plays very well, but I've found with a fret level and crown job, I can bring the action down a bit more, put .013 TI flats on there, and a guitar plays glassy-smooth and easy, but still has that solid sound an archtop ought to have.

  16. #90

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    BTW when people say the Epiphone wiring isn't good, I can at least report one experience. When I opened this guitar and starting taking the pickup out and the selector switch, the wire just came off at the solder joints. The solder tabs on the switch also broke when I tried very gently to flex them out a bit. Wires literally popped off of solder joints when I moved anything, and the wire itself was not what I saw when I opened up a Gibson ES175 20 years ago to put in a new pickup.

    I have an idea now what folks are talking about.

  17. #91

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    So budgetary constraints rule out my buying another $100 Seth Lover for the bridge, so I'm going with a Stewmac Parson Street Golden Age bridge pickup for $60. I think if I ever use the bridge pickup, this will do the job, but I can think of other things I want to do with that $40 I saved. Perhaps I should have gone with the Stewmac's in both spots, but the Seymour Duncan/Seth Lover came so highly recommend I figured it was worth it as the main pickup.

    When everything arrives and I get a free afternoon, this project will launch!

  18. #92

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    Hi there,

    After a quick research, I’ve found that there are probably many Broadway users on this forum, but that there is no thread dedicated to exchanging tips and ideas on how to best use our beloved jazzbox.

    That’s what this thread is meant to be. A Broadway ain’t an L5, but it’s a good, usable guitar, and I’m sure that by sharing experience we can make the best of it.

    I start right away with something I found out today… I look forward in reading your queries, suggestions, tips and ideas!

    RadioFM

  19. #93

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    It all started this week. A Trad jazz jam turns me on to the genre but my idea is that with a Telecaster and a Broadway I don’t have the right tools. Just not that acoustic arch top sound… (the guitarist of the band even used a battered nylon strings guitar amplified with some sort of mike on top of it…).

    So I start looking for maybe one more jazzbox, with a floating PUP etc… but I really cannot justify having one more guitar.

    Then I read on this forum the post of someone with a similar question (how do you get a more acoustic sound out of a lam guitar with set PUPS) and one answer is: set the pickups low, turn the volume of the guitar down, and turn the volume of the amp up.

    I tried this today, using the pickup that no-one seems to use: the bridge pickup (vol= 1-2, tone ≈ 5). Through my amp (a fender Super Champ X2 emulating a blackface twin, all eq. set flat) I got a very convincing Django-esque tone out of the Broadway. The guitar even sounded good (or at least decent) through Garageband. I can’t wait to try this on a future jam.

    Fine print: I have TI Jazz Swing 12s, and probably they play a role. How you pick is also very important (you have to pick pretty vigorously close to the bridge, and use your fingers for rhythm work by preference).

    But all in all, it was a pleasant surprise: the Broadway seems to be a very usable trad jazz or swing guitar…

    Epiphone Broadway?-img_2116-jpg

  20. #94

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    yes it all makes sense what you post...for a vintage jazz tone drop the neck pickup a little into the body and roll back the v/t knobs..

    django tone was brighter...type of guitar and strings...so i can see bridge pup working..sure


    also have good assortment of picks around ...from thin to thick..makes huge difference in tone

    thomastiks are perfect choice

    btw flats on tele is also a beautiful thing....same principles as above ^ apply

    welcome

    cheers

  21. #95

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    I bought a Epiphone Broadway about a month ago and I love it. Mine is a 2004 MIK in mint condition.
    After a while i changed the strings and put a set of Thomastik JS 11 on the guitar. Sounds great both with or without amplification. I use a cable with a 90 degree angle to prevent radial force on the body when playing seated.
    Regarding amplification I use one of those smaller Fender modeling amps with a handy headphone feature.

    Best regards,
    Burts.

  22. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burts
    I bought a Epiphone Broadway about a month ago and I love it. Mine is a 2004 MIK in mint condition.
    After a while i changed the strings and put a set of Thomastik JS 11 on the guitar. Sounds great both with or without amplification. I use a cable with a 90 degree angle to prevent radial force on the body when playing seated.
    Regarding amplification I use one of those smaller Fender modeling amps with a handy headphone feature.

    Best regards,
    Burts.
    Hi Burts,

    Welcome to the thread! Thomastik JS are great. And if you find great settings for the Mustang (right?) please share!

    Cheers

    Francesco

  23. #97

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    Besides, the only problem I seem to have with the Broadway is that it seems to go out of whack pretty often and with no apparent reason. I’ve had it for about 4 months and a half now. It was great for the first month, but then some buzzing has appeared. I’ve taken it for set-up end of January, all fine, but then a couple of weeks ago it has started buzzing again (even the open A). It’s due for setup tomorrow again.
    No big deal, but do you have the same problem?
    It’s my first archtop, so maybe it’s entirely normal?

    Best!

  24. #98

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    Hey R74!

    I walked into a shop and they had a new Broadway and a new Emperor Regent (both new old stock).

    I fell for the Regent. It had a hell of a lot of issues that made it almost unplayable.

    The worst culprit was the nut, poorly cut.

    The neck was straight and the frets were ok.

    But there was a lot of issues...

    Heres my set up and tweaks https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guitar-amps-gizmos/44561-epiphone-emperor-regent setup-tweaks-ngd.html

    Where's the buzzing? Frets?

  25. #99

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    if it's ok sometimes and then goes bad..that points to trussrod adjustment...many new guitar necks are made with unproperly seasoned wood that just doesn't seem to stop moving.. needing frequent trussrod adjusting..no biggie (if you know how)...learn a few basics and you'll be alright..

    also keep in the case when you are not playing it...its temp and humidity changes that move it


    jb is right about all those other issues, but a badly cut nut doesn't get better, then worse, then better again...that's neck movement...(and not saying the nut isn't poorly cut as well!)

    luck

    cheers
    Last edited by neatomic; 04-17-2016 at 06:55 PM. Reason: gr

  26. #100

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    I picked up a 1998 Peerless-made Ephiphone Broadway (not the Elitist model) last year. I gave it a light fret leveling and re-crowning, replaced the pickup selector switch, and replaced the stock pickups with a Seymour Duncan Seth Lover in the neck position and a Stewart-MacDonald Golden Age Parsons Street in the bridge spot. It's a honey. that SD/SL pickup seems like it was just made for this guitar. It purrs, it growls, it sings. It gives me that "L5ces Fix" that I was looking for (I guess as long as I don't play an actual L5ces!).

    I truly love this guitar. It seems elegant, beautiful, playable in every way.
    Attached Images Attached Images Epiphone Broadway?-epiphone-broadway-sunburst-2-jpg 
    Last edited by lawson-stone; 04-18-2016 at 08:35 AM. Reason: Error about manufacturer and date corrected