The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hello there !

    It's time for a new amp
    I have a Fender Prosonic, a Princeton Reverb clone, a DV Mark Little Jazz and DV Mark Jazz 12. Love them all for different reasons
    What am I looking for in the next one ? A lightweight combo, blackface sound, good reverb, loud enough for playing in a gig and an excellent line out for recording
    Here are the ones I selected :
    Fender Tonemaster : Princeton Reverb, Deluxe Reverb or Twin Reverb
    Quilter : Aviator Cub or Aviator Mach 3
    Has anybody tried these two series side by side?
    I know the line out of the Tonemaster is very good, what about the Quilter? For example I really don’t like le line out on my DV Mark amps. Too noisy (I have to use a VST to remove the noise) and too muddy for my tastes
    If you have a recording from a Quilter Aviator line out, feel free to share...
    I’ve already tried a Deluxe Reverb TM and it sounded fantastic to my ears. What is prevent me from buying a TM is their uncertain durability, even if I haven’t read issues from customers so far
    What is prevent me from buying a Quilter is that I can’t try them. The Mach 3 has a lot of knobs for sculpting the sound and I don’t want to spend too much time on the settings
    I also prefer to have the knobs on the front like on the Fender than on the back like on the Quilter
    I don't use pedals and have two electric guitars : Ibanez Artstar AF200 Prestige and a G&L Fullerton Deluxe ASAT Classic Bluesboy
    Well, enough talking... Let me know your thoughts

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Quilter amps seem to be popular in my neck of the woods. They're light, they're loud and they sound good. Professional musicians use them, hobby bands use them, and people bring them to jam sessions.

    I have a Fender Blues Jr, so I can't get into the ins and outs of the amp. But having easily spent 100 hours listening to other guys play them, they're fine. As good as any other amp out there. There ain't no magic in the gear.

  4. #3

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    Having used varieties of both, often side by side, I always fall back on the Fenders. I want to like the Quilters, but something is missing for me in the character of the sound. Fenders feel more ”alive”, Tonemasters included.

  5. #4

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    How loud are the gigs? Amp mic'ed or un-mic'ed? Jazz, blues, rock, or other type of music?

  6. #5

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    I play mostly jazz. I have a duet with a singer. Small gigs for the moment. But find a drummer and a bassist could be a project in a close future. I want to be able to play with them un-mic'ed

  7. #6

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    My first 'gig volume' amp is a Quilter Aviator Cub, chose it over the tone masters. I like it. People say it's got piercing treble but i think that's sort of a skill issue, the EQ's are active bands and dont work the same as a typical tube amp EQ so people dial them in wrong. the EQ is sensitive to small adjustments away from noon, worth reading the manual.

    i love that it's lightweight and to me it offers more versatility than a Tone Master which at the end of the day is a digital modeling amp. the aviator cub is solid-state with three separately-voiced preamp sections. it's its own thing and i like that. im also not going for the muffled fast-decay archtop thing, i like my treble, touch-sensitivity and my singing sustain.

    oh yeah, it gets proper loud but still does bedroom volume well. great master volume knob. i stick with the tweed input most days, more mids. but black is good too. solid line out IMO with built in cab emulation (can't be disabled but sounds good).

    tim learch on tweed and black inputs respectively


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQXRPyOB3W0

  8. #7

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    some thoughts on tone masters from an amp repair guy who knows his stuff (Psionic Audio). hope he makes a video on quilters in the future


  9. #8

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    I played the Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb and Aviator Cub side by side. I think that if you're looking to capture the sound of a real Deluxe Reverb the Tonemaster does it noticebly better than the blackface setting on the Quilter. I know some people here disagree, but I thought that the Tonesmaster really nails the sound to the point of being indistinguishable from a real one (allowing for the fact that tube amps vary a little from specific amp to specific amp), and the the Quilter is in the neighborhood but not exactly that sound. OTOH, it's nonetheless a good sound, and the Quilter offers other good sounds that the Tonemaster does not, especially the tweed sound. The Quilter is also a little smaller and lighter. If I were to pick one I'd probably take the Quilter because of the tonal flexibility and the slightly better portability.

  10. #9

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    If it's of any help, I have a Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb and an older Quilter Aviator Twin Ten.

    Both are great amps but they both have their pros/cons.

    If you are after a Fender blackface sound, the Quilter is in the ballpark but is a little more midrangey and doesn't have quite as much bottom end. In some ways it tends to sound more tweed like to my ears. My acoustic archtops with floating pickups sound particularly good through that amp as they benefit from more mid range and less bass.

    The Tonemaster Deluxe sounds to my ears very close to the real Deluxe Reverb. It's light, and sounds like a proper Fender blackface amp. The Quilter seems to feel more lively and direct, where as the Fender has almost a nanosecond of latency. It's barely noticeable, but if I play through the Fender for a while and switch to the Quilter I can feel a difference. It might even be the quick response of twin 10'' speakers vs the 12'' speaker in the Fender?

  11. #10

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    Thank you everybody for all your comments
    A lot of good points for each brand
    As I love the Fender sound and I'm not looking for a tonal versatility, the Tone Master seems to be better
    The Twin is too big for my needs. So the final question is Deluxe or Princeton? Everlasting debate...

  12. #11

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    I just sold a Quilter 101 mine reverb head, and just traded into a tone master DR.

    That was my 4th Quilter. They've all had their good points. My favorite so far was the OD200. Excellent amp, matched perfectly with a 1x12 ported cab I had. I've not owned a Quilter combo.

    The TMDR is quite different. It is indeed rather close to a tube DR tonally. Also much lighter, with a very useful variable power setup. Lively sound, not boxy in the least. Can get quite loud. A warm, tube-like sound, but not quite tube either. There is a spaciousness and depth in my favorite tube amps - one of which is a wonderful '68 SFDR - that's lacking in the TMDR. But still close. To me, the TMDR holds up, on its own, as a useful and great sounding amp.

    There are other excellent choices in SS. I play often through a DV Mark Micro 50 CMT, matched with an oversize, open-back pine cab by Peter Mather. The sound with this one is very pleasing. Same could be said for either of the Evans amps I've spent time with, both S150 1x15 combos.
    Last edited by mad dog; 04-22-2023 at 07:31 AM.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by mad dog

    There are other excellent choices in SS. I play often through a DV Mark Micro 50 CMT, matched with an oversize, open-back pine cab by Peter Mather. The sound with this one is very pleasing. Same could be said for either of the Evans amps I've spent time with, both S150 1x15 combos.
    Thanks for the info mad dog ....

    Can you get some nice tune preamp dirt / grease on your sound
    With the DV Mark micro 50 CMT ?

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    Thanks for the info mad dog ....

    Can you get some nice tune preamp dirt / grease on your sound
    With the DV Mark micro 50 CMT ?
    Yes, you can. That amp has only one channel, but two discrete sets of EQ, which are can be blended together.
    Fender or Quilter-dv_micro50_cmt_front-jpg
    The bottom row is clean only, with level being the volume. Top row has a drive knob first, and it's own level knob. If you keep the level knob on the top down, it does not affect the bottom row EQ. Now put that drive knob up halfway or so, and add some level on that row. Doing so blends a more overdrive sort of sound into the clean.

    That's pretty much just how I use it. Drive knob at 11:30 or so. Bottom level knob at noon. (That's loud ... I control volume from the guitar.) Top level knob at 10:00 or so. The result is a very convincing edge of overdrive sound. Works especially well with P90s.

  15. #14

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    I come back here after buying a Princeton Reverb Tone Master... and sent it back after three weeks of using
    When I did a A/B comparison with my Princeton Reverb clone, the TM was clearly the level below. Probably because the speaker in the clone is a Weber Vintage Series Ferromax and sounds so much better than the Jensen
    There was a huge rattle on certain low notes and I didn't want to spend time and energy to find the cause instead of playing
    The sound when it breaks up is very unpleasant, the contrary of the warmth of a tube amp
    I found the reverb way too long for my taste
    The tremolo sounds very digital and not deep at all
    The line out is actually not as better as I thought comparing with the DV Mark
    So this purchase taught me a good lesson : be happy with what I already have

  16. #15

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    I have the Little Jazz and have played it through a PA with the line-out in several situations. It sounded fine. I didn't notice any problem with noise. Disclosure: I don't hear highs as well as I used to.

  17. #16

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    I bought the Tonemaster Princeton Reverb and sent it back
    It was nice but nowhere near a tube amp from my experience.
    But since a lot of tubeless amps sound great for jazz.

    For that "at the edge of breakup sag" it just doesn't do it like the real thing.
    And the reverb was just horrible for my use. Not so much the level knob (well at 2 or 3 you're already in surfland) but the decay is just way too long.
    So even at low levels, the reverb justs keeps going on a on.........
    ...
    I didn't like the overall feel of it. But it's my personal opinion, just try it.
    I've read hear and there that the Quilter Aviator Club is much better
    Haven't tried it

  18. #17

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    If Princeton had enough power for you, then the Quilter Superblock US should tick your boxes. "Fender'y" voicings similar to Aviator's, and the Limiter control which emulates tube sag nicely. Message after message of praise on the Quilter owners' FB pages. I do my gigs with it using a 6.5" Toob Metro cab. A more sensitive 10-12" speaker makes it loud enough for most purposes.

  19. #18

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    If I were in your shoes, I opt for Quiler amp.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by stylo
    some thoughts on tone masters from an amp repair guy who knows his stuff (Psionic Audio). hope he makes a video on quilters in the future

    Thanks for sharing this video, it is quite informative.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitterbug
    If Princeton had enough power for you, then the Quilter Superblock US should tick your boxes. "Fender'y" voicings similar to Aviator's, and the Limiter control which emulates tube sag nicely. Message after message of praise on the Quilter owners' FB pages. I do my gigs with it using a 6.5" Toob Metro cab. A more sensitive 10-12" speaker makes it loud enough for most purposes.
    Absolutely! I use my SBUS through a Toob 10 on blues gigs with a fairly loud quintet that includes a Nord keyboard through a 300W amp and a harp player using an early BF on 11. The SB even delivers a decent verge-of-breakup through the 10 that’s easily pushed to saturated smoothness by cranking the guitar’s volume pot.

  22. #21

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    If I really wanted a new amp I'll go for a Quilter now I know Tone Master are not for me. But actually the PRTM cured my GAS making me realize how much I love my DV Mark Jazz 12. Great sound, small size, lightweight, not a lot of knobs but each one very effective...
    A good guitar, a good amp, I don't need more gear for being happy
    Thank you for all of your advices

  23. #22

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    The Quilter MicroPro and Mach 3 have both reverb intensity and dwell time controls. (The MP also has a reverb tone control.) Very flexible, you can really tailor it to your own preferences, much like a decent reverb pedal.


  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by mad dog
    A warm, tube-like sound, but not quite tube either. There is a spaciousness and depth in my favorite tube amps - one of which is a wonder '68 SFDR - that's lacking in the TMDR. But still close.
    Nailed it — close, but the tube amp sound just has more soul. I would just add that live, and in the mix, this extra depth from a tube amp would get lost and the differences would be imperceptible.

  25. #24

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    I had the Tonemaster Deluxe. One thing to remember is this amp has a built in attenurator. So depending on the gig you can adjust the power as needed. Also, to save space you can stand the amp on it's side. Probably not a good idea with a conventional tube amp. The attenurator with the 12" speaker would give you lots of options for venues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caillou
    Thank you everybody for all your comments
    A lot of good points for each brand
    As I love the Fender sound and I'm not looking for a tonal versatility, the Tone Master seems to be better
    The Twin is too big for my needs. So the final question is Deluxe or Princeton? Everlasting debate...

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fear the Reaper
    I had the Tonemaster Deluxe. One thing to remember is this amp has a built in attenurator.
    I could be wrong, but I don't think Fender uses a traditional output attenuator to achieve variable output power. I'm pretty sure that the class D amp modules in the Tonemasters are all the same 200 watt ICE board, regardless of rated output power. So they clearly adjust the output power internally, with some combination of simple signal attenuation before it hits the power amp board and complex modeling of the signal to give it the sound of tube breakup. Looking inside them, there's no attenuator visible inside the chassis. It'd be hard to overlook - it'd have to be a sizable chunk of heat dissipating substance and surface area to cut a 200 watt signal to 1 watt.

    Here's a functional description of what's inside them all:

    "The Tone Masters have 4 boards. One is the board for the front controls. One is the motherboard (for the processor). One is the analogue board (attenuator, IR). One for the ICE Power amp. We hear a lot about the extreme processing/software, but not much on the analogue board (outside of the attenuation and IRs). A lot of work went into matching the analogue board to the real tube amp. This is the "secret sauce" so to speak (along with the software and processing). The signal hits the analogue board duplicating the analogue input characteristics, goes to the processor (modeled preamp, power amp and transformers), then it goes to the analogue board to duplicate the analogue output characteristics. There is also a lot going on with the attenuation since there are 6 different leads going to the ICE Power amp. After this on to the ICE Power amp for the speakers which are normal guitar speakers. This amp is not your typical SS amp and/or modeling amp. Too many people dismiss it as such. This amp is really a major game changer."

    I strongly suspect that they achieve variable power output by varying the signal strength from the analog board to the power module, right where you'd find a master volume pot in a traditional circuit. They must use modeling to adjust harmonic distortion and other parameters in the signal as you dial the power down. This would give a realistic tube breakup sound when and how you'd get it with a true attenuator. With all that high tech inside, they don't need a power soaking attenuator to get what they want. And it sure would be a step backward for weight, energy efficiency, and claims of cutting edge tech.