The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1
    Does anyone know of any old recordings where the guitarist is playing a Martin OM? And/or know where I might find some photos of players playing OM’s in a jazz setting back in the day? I am just curious and haven’t been able to find much of anything.

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  3. #2

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    Difficult to fine such a recording they probably are around but not a good guitar for jazz at all. If I had to play a flattop which is my last choice of any guitar, at least I might choose an OM Martin, but they don't cut it for jazz. The sound is not focused as on an archtop and to me sounds not pleasing.

  4. #3

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    Going for the Nick Lucas sound?

    There's plenty of recordings on You Tube where he is using a small body Gibson flattop guitar.


    Danielle

  5. #4

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    Here's Ulf Wakenius blowing the doors down with something very similar.


  6. #5

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    I can’t think of anyone other than Nick Lucas among the real early guys who played flattops, unless you count ragtime/Piedmont style players like Blind Blake as jazz, or maybe Brownie McGhee. Among more recent guys, a lot have. Vic Juris has been pictured with what looks like an OM style

    Martin OM guitars used in jazz?-f1ff29f7-240f-4b4d-b9cf-240bc6fc3da7-jpeg

  7. #6

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    Johnny Smith used an OM Martin when he started out. I think there's a pic of him w it in his book. Joe Pass did too.

  8. #7

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    Joe Pass played a couple flat-tops, especially early on. This looks like a Martin OM to me, maybe an OM-45 given the inlays and binding.

    Martin OM guitars used in jazz?-20191207_7b164a-jpg

    This looks like a dreadnought, not an OM. But I don't think Joe actually played a flat-top on this recording at all.


    Here's a little more Ulf. Looks like OM dimensions, and very similar to but not actually a Martin (unless someone tweaked the headstock logo):

    And on One Quiet Night, Pat Metheny plays a custom build by Linda Manzer. Not a Martin. And not exactly OM dimensions. And some cats might not even call it jazz. (I don't know what to call it, but it is some beautiful playing and music.) I think Pat played Guild flat-tops (6 and 12 string) on his early album "New Chautauqua." (One of my favorite albums.)

    So if your question is not specifically about Martin OMs and more like "can you play jazz on a flat-top?" you might consider these clips.
    Abercrombie, Coryell and Badi Assad:

    John McLaughlin, Al DiMeola, and Paco DeLucia:

    But I do think a Martin OM is a great guitar, and that you could play any part in this post on one just fine, in my humble opinion.
    Last edited by Flat; 12-01-2022 at 12:50 AM.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
    Here's Ulf Wakenius blowing the doors down with something very similar.

    That’s cool. I’ve not heard of this young lady, but I love that vocalese!

    I think a lot of OMs have a nice balanced tone that works well in the jazz idiom. I have an OM flattop that I play a lot because it’s A) available on a stand near me and B) doesn’t have to be plugged in and turned on.

    Just my non-expert opinion I have always like the Taylor OMs for their mellow tone. As far as Martins, their cheaper laminate top (and neck!) guitars actually sound nice and non-boomy.

    A lot of dreadnoughts would not work so well I would think. But in the hands of a great artist, I’m sure they could be made to sound great in whatever genre they’re played.

  10. #9

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  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    That’s cool. I’ve not heard of this young lady, but I love that vocalese!
    Check this one out Doc. Maria Joao is a monster.


  12. #11

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    A 000/OM size for jazz. Who'd do that? Just crazy. Blasphemous, even.




  13. #12

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    And just to mention in passing that Abercrombie is reading that stuff...

  14. #13

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    So that's another consideration...

    I think all (or most?) Martin OMs are rosewood back and sides. Some guys will say that rosewood will generate lovely shimmering overtones, but a mahogany back and sides (like Mr. B's, I believe) will better enhance the fundamental of each note.

    And they'll say that a harmonically complex "jazz" chord might get lost among the overtones, so you might be better off with mahogany if you want to focus on jazz.

    I would tend to agree, but it's a personal decision with an infinity of variables, so please don't listen to me.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat
    So that's another consideration...

    I think all (or most?) Martin OMs are rosewood back and sides. Some guys will say that rosewood will generate lovely shimmering overtones, but a mahogany back and sides (like Mr. B's, I believe) will better enhance the fundamental of each note.

    And they'll say that a harmonically complex "jazz" chord might get lost among the overtones, so you might be better off with mahogany if you want to focus on jazz.

    I would tend to agree, but it's a personal decision with an infinity of variables, so please don't listen to me.
    Style 28, 42 and 45 were rosewood, style 18 mahogany.

  16. #15

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    You are right, wintermoon! Good point!

    Plus my 00-21GE is Indian rosewood. Although I don't think they've made a style 21 in a while. Not sure.

    Somehow I always think about the short-scale 000-18 when it comes to mahogany Martins of that size, and forget the OM-18--but that's my fault. Like you say, you can definitely get a mahogany OM.
    Last edited by Flat; 12-01-2022 at 05:50 AM.

  17. #16

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    I suppose you could also get an all-hog OM, so it also *looks* warm O:-)

  18. #17

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    On an acoustic Collings.

  19. #18

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    Flat tops sound great for jazz. Martin guitars are amazing.

  20. #19

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    A little bit on the modern side, but the first portion on the track is recorded with a 1936 Martin 0-18.



    Scofield, also on a Martin.

    There's also Metheny's version of "Lonely Woman" (Horace Silver, not Ornette Coleman) on "Rejoicing". Not on Youtube, for some reason. Beautfil acoustic tone, I asume it was recorded with a Manzer, as usual.
    Last edited by jorgemg1984; 12-01-2022 at 09:23 AM.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984


    On an acoustic Collings.
    Now I had heard somewhere he used an Indian Hill guitar on that record...but of course I can't remember where.

    At any rate, definitely a flattop, and definitely a great sound.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Now I had heard somewhere he used an Indian Hill guitar on that record...but of course I can't remember where.

    At any rate, definitely a flattop, and definitely a great sound.
    Jeff, I believe that was on the "One" record and that here he still used the Collings. But I might be wrong!

    While the glue dries...: Jonathan Kreisberg

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark
    Difficult to fine such a recording they probably are around but not a good guitar for jazz at all. If I had to play a flattop which is my last choice of any guitar, at least I might choose an OM Martin, but they don't cut it for jazz. The sound is not focused as on an archtop and to me sounds not pleasing.
    I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you on that. I have a Collings OM1A Traditional. It sounds fantastic for jazz.

    I am just curious about the history of the OM. Being that it was designed to be replace the banjo in a orchestra. And, that it was called the ‘Orchestra Model’ to appeal to band leaders and rhythm players. I figured that there would have to be a couple of old recordings out there. I do realize that they were more popular with the singing cowboys and western swing folks. But, I would think that there would at least be some recordings of Perry Bechtel playing one.

  24. #23
    I was really just curious about the history, and vintage recordings and/or photos of OM’s being played in a jazz context. That being said, reading through the posts thus far has informed me of some players that I would like to check out!

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by westsideryan
    I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you on that. I have a Collings OM1A Traditional. It sounds fantastic for jazz.

    I am just curious about the history of the OM. Being that it was designed to be replace the banjo in an orchestra. And, that it was called the ‘Orchestra Model’ to appeal to band leaders and rhythm players. I figured that there would have to be a couple of old recordings out there. I do realize that they were more popular with the singing cowboys and western swing folks. But, I would think that there would at least be some recordings of Perry Bechtel playing one.
    .


    yes we disagree completely no flattop sounds like Perry Bechtel’s D’angelico New Yorker. I played it a lot knew the fellow who bought it.

  26. #25

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    So, if you can play, they work just fine.