The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    @maxx, the tension on the GB series guitars with the metal bridge are lower than any other archtop I've ever owned. Combine it with a thomastik JS112 set and it feels like .010s on a Les Paul.
    .
    Man I am so envious! I hope the Japan model will be the same, whenever I manage to actually get one.

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  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxxx
    [/I]Not just perceived.. even my guitar friends felt the same and some are luthiers. Mass psychosis maybe?
    More likely that you are playing in a subtly different way because you (think) you like the instrument better...

    I agree with the above: the bit of string between finger and nut will not normally affect the sound. It may do so a bit when you're playing really high up the fretboard, and more so on the higher strings. I doubt that signal can ever be strong enough that you'd hear a difference between a metal nut and a nut of any other hard-enough material.
    The one exception here: back-buzz. Again something that's much more likely to occur higher up the fretboard, in my experience.

    Yes finger pressure on a fret does shorten the string length but it's not a mechanical high pressure steel vice , it's just a soft bit of padded flesh. A simple test would be to fret a note, then cut the string between the fretted note and the nut with a pair of pliers and see what happens to your fretted note. It will vanish and your note and tone will be gone.
    Was that a joke or do you have other similar pathological examples or did you forget to mention that you planned fix the string to the chosen fret so the sounding part remains under tension??

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    Once a note is closed, it doesn't matter if the nut is bone, plastic, brass, etc. The only thing that effects tone is what is in between the fretted note and the bridge. Stuff behind the fretted note don't effect tone. They might effect things like perceived tension, sustain, etc., which some may construe as tone but they won't sound brighter or duller.
    That would be my intuition too, but there is a mechanism whereby the string termination at the nut and beyond could possibly have an effect on the tone and that is the conversion of lateral vibration to longitudinal vibration and back again that takes place where the string passes through a curve at the bridge, fret and nut and which tends to reduce high frequencies.

    I have mentioned this before in the context of finger tailpieces:

    opinions on finger tailpieces

    Since the string is very stiff longtudinally it might be possible for some part of the longitudinal wave to bypass the fretting finger and be reflected from the nut, so the section of string between fret and nut might not always be completely passive. Any substantial effect seems unlikely, but perhaps it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

  5. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    More likely that you are playing in a subtly different way because you (think) you like the instrument better...

    I agree with the above: the bit of string between finger and nut will not normally affect the sound. It may do so a bit when you're playing really high up the fretboard, and more so on the higher strings. I doubt that signal can ever be strong enough that you'd hear a difference between a metal nut and a nut of any other hard-enough material.
    The one exception here: back-buzz. Again something that's much more likely to occur higher up the fretboard, in my experience.
    I don't know about you but I could definitely hear the difference between plastic and bone on my guitar. And not because I like or think I like the instrument better. I don't actually like Teles in general at all. They make my ears bleed. Thank goodness we all hear things differently eh and my ears not the same as yours, what a boring world that would be.

    I also have hyperacusis which alone makes me hear and feel very differently about sound than most.

    Isn't it also wonderful that we all have differently tuned senses which give us different experiences, and that we can't use our own to negate and invalidate those of others.. nor use phrases such as: 'more likely' to define anything and conjure facts from nowhere.

    Why Everyone Hears The Same Sounds Differently - KnowledgeNuts
    Last edited by Maxxx; 12-01-2022 at 04:07 AM.

  6. #55

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    My thought has been that you shorten a string using metal all the time.
    Why does a metal nut then make any difference?
    Shouldn’t in theory all guitars have a 0 fret, if you wanted consistency over the neck?

    I don’t know the answer but it’s an interesting topic.

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxxx
    I don't know about you but I could definitely hear the difference between plastic and bone on my guitar. And not because I like or think I like the instrument better.\
    You misunderstood me. Assuming your plastic nut wasn't at least NuBone or some better bone replacement I have no doubts you could hear some difference between the plastic and bone nuts - or else maybe the bone nut was simply cut so much better. That will make you like the instrument better (you can insert the "thinks" yourself to get the "wishful thinking version )

    Something similar happened to me after I installed a ZeroGlide - myself. I still don't know if there's objective ground for me better liking the instrument other than because it's got better intonation.

  8. #57

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    Maxx I'm sorry that you got a guitar that is sub par.
    I know it doesn't help you, but I bought my GB10SE [Indonesian] around December 2020 and
    had the opportunity to compare it side by side with a Japanese GB10.
    I preferred the slightly fuller neck of the SE and also the neck p/u was noticeably more powerful.
    It was strung with 12-52 D'Addario chromes
    Looking at the overall build quality it looked and played up to my expectations.

    ...Did I mention the price difference? C2500 NZD for the SE and C4500NZD for the Japanese one. [Now they are C3300 and C5K respectively]

    What may or may not be useful to you is to take your guitar to a reputable guitar tech.
    I did that with mine after playing it for a few days, I took it to a tech with an excellent reputation and told him the string gauges I used and asked him to adjust the action, truss rod, nut etc to achieve the lowest
    pre-buzz sound possible.
    -I'm getting up in years [75] if you must know and have worked around a case of focal dystonia in my LH over
    the last 5 years so I want my guitars to play easily
    Have worked through the FD now but sometimes I have to work over certain ideas carefully, especially intricate chord movements.
    My strings are D'Addario Chromes 10-48 with the top two swapped out with a 13 and 15.
    Got that idea from Rich Severson. Great balanced tone from string to string. [See his YouTube video on his string choice]

    Re the string tension, I just adjusted the 2 part adjustable tailpiece, which lowered the break angle considerably!
    I'd like to thank jzucker for that pearl !
    The SE is now so easy to play it's almost embarrassing LOL

    To think I owned one of the earliest GB10's with the 21 fret neck back around 1980.
    Also worked my way through 3 Howard Roberts Fusion 111's ....I used to tweak the tailpieces on all of the above.

    So all in all, I'm still pleased with my purchase and even more now I lowered the string tension, or more correctly
    as Jack said, perceived string tension which is I care about, I want to just spend my time playing.

    Good luck with sorting out what to do about your instrument.
    Last edited by Moonray; 12-01-2022 at 07:07 AM.

  9. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonray
    Maxx I'm sorry that you got a guitar that is sub par.
    I know it doesn't help you, but I bought my GB10SE [Indonesian] around December 2020 and
    had the opportunity to compare it side by side with a Japanese GB10.
    I preferred the slightly fuller neck of the SE and also the neck p/u was noticeably more powerful.
    It was strung with 12-52 D'Addario chromes
    Looking at the overall build quality it looked and played up to my expectations.

    ...Did I mention the price difference? C2500 NZD for the SE and C4500NZD for the Japanese one. [Now they are C3300 and C5K respectively]

    What may or may not be useful to you is to take your guitar to a reputable guitar tech.
    I did that with mine after playing it for a few days, I took it to a tech with an excellent reputation and told him the string gauges I used and asked him to adjust the action, truss rod, nut etc to achieve the lowest
    pre-buzz sound possible.
    -I'm getting up in years [75] if you must know and have worked around a case of focal dystonia in my LH over
    the last 5 years so I want my guitars to play easily
    Have worked through the FD now but sometimes I have to work over certain ideas carefully, especially intricate chord movements.
    My strings are D'Addario Chromes 10-48 with the top two swapped out with a 13 and 15.
    Got that idea from Rich Severson. Great balanced tone from string to string. [See his YouTube video on his string choice]

    Re the string tension, I just adjusted the 2 part adjustable tailpiece, which lowered the break angle considerably!
    I'd like to thank jzucker for that pearl !
    The SE is now so easy to play it's almost embarrassing LOL

    To think I owned one of the earliest GB10's with the 21 fret neck back around 1980.
    Also worked my way through 3 Howard Roberts Fusion 111's ....I used to tweak the tailpieces on all of the above.

    So all in all, I'm still pleased with my purchase and even more now I lowered the string tension, or more correctly
    as Jack said, perceived string tension which is I care about, I want to just spend my time playing.

    Good luck with sorting out what to do about your instrument.
    Hi Moonray and thanks for the detailed reply.. my double bass just arrived from Germany so will read your comments properly when I deal with this delivery.

    In the meantime the whole purpose of this thread is specifically about Chinese or Indonesian GB10's and I'm trying to keep it on track.

    So could you kindly share close up photos of your GB10SE.. including all details of the nut, the bridge, the fret work, the binding and inalys etc particularly around the neck join and heel? And anything else you'd like to share. The more the better please?

    Words are great but we NEED photos.

    Thank you kindly.

  10. #59

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    If I remember well I posted here when I purchased a GB10SE in 2019 I think, and sent it back. It must have been made in China but not sure.
    I explained all this back then :

    I returned it because overall it felt cheap playing and sounding for the price. The gold hardware seemed very low grade, as the ebony fretboard.
    The pickups sounded cold and harsh, and the overall playing experience didn’t feel right nor inspiring.
    However it didn’t have the sloppy work like yours.
    One thing I recall is that it smelled chemicals like crazy (glue, wood, finish?) and was unbearable in the room when it stayed more than a few hours.
    So I returned it because I just felt it wasn’t a good purchase overall.. 1250€ at the time.
    Many on this forum strongly suggested to go for the GB10.
    I found very shortly after a used 2009 GB10 in natural for 1900€, and the step up was nothing but stellar. The GB10SE and GB10 only have the looks in commun in my opinion. With Ibanez you really never go wrong with the Prestige line.

    Why don’t you look for a used GB10 by the way?

    And maybe a silly question.. The strings on the GB10SE are 11/49 flatwounds.. are you used to flatwounds?
    With some guitars, when not well set up or not very good quality, I find flatwounds to be very stiff and just plinky pluky…
    hurts fingers and feel dead

    EDIT : I want to add that I really love Ibanez and this post is no bashing the brand. I understand that Ibanez is not a guitar builder? but asks factories around the world to work for them.. maybe my GB10SE was subpar?
    I have 3 semis, two of them are Ibanez (well 80’s MIJ AS50 and AC100).
    The 3rd is a brandi new Gibson ES339 I purchased last week-end. And I have to admit that the AS50 is every bit as good, even better (ouch!) than the Gibson.. better playability, better woods , different sound, but excellent and very precise…
    But I’m loving the Gibson, it has « that « sound I was looking for … very very inspiring to play
    Sorry for the slight of comment, but just to say I really respect Ibanez as a brand
    Last edited by Jx30510; 12-01-2022 at 05:03 PM.

  11. #60

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    Sorry but I didn’t keep photos of this guitar by the way

  12. #61

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    I have some photos that I took when I'd just bought my SE.
    But I'll take some more up to date ones [including yesterday's t/p adjustment] of the areas
    in the present discussion.

  13. #62
    I don't know what's going on.. Must be "everything you buy is crap week"

    The new 'Fender 68 Princeton Reverb just arrived a moment ago. Please don't tell me this is normal?

    Turn your volume up..


  14. #63

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    At least it's got reverb, even after you turn it off so you can save something on your electricity bill

    Seriously, it does this with or without the cable plugged in, regardless of which input?

  15. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    At least it's got reverb, even after you turn it off so you can save something on your electricity bill

    Seriously, it does this with or without the cable plugged in, regardless of which input?
    Both inputs..

    Here's nothing plugged in and volume at zero..


  16. #65
    Looks like Ibanez are not the only ones who lie about their gear..

  17. #66

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    Not that i know anything about UK music stores, but where do you buy from?
    Id be blaming them based on your experience.
    BTW thats pretty typical mains hum. Check your house wiring… tap some tubes too, might find a loose one.

  18. #67

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    Maxxx

    Hi I just took a collection of photos of my GB10SE that I bought new in Dec 20220
    Problem is how to attach them to this thread.
    I could try sending them to my PM page and you can see them there, or else some kind
    soul could tell me how to get an album of shots from my iPhone to this thread.
    [I have just saved the album of 28 shots to my laptop, but the question remains: How to send them to this thread]

    TIA for any assistance

  19. #68

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    Check the preamp tubes
    I had a Vibro Champ Reverb (the new ones), it humed loudly and the tremolo made a click noise at each cycle.
    One of the 12Xa7 was faulty right out the factory…
    I didn’t want to return the amp for that (even though I SHOULD have.. Fender charges high prices for these 68 Amps.. and I hear many have issues)
    I changed the preamp tubes by NOS I had and gone were the problems .. and the sound was much better.

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonray
    Maxxx

    Hi I just took a collection of photos of my GB10SE that I bought new in Dec 20220
    Problem is how to attach them to this thread.
    I could try sending them to my PM page and you can see them there, or else some kind
    soul could tell me how to get an album of shots from my iPhone to this thread.
    [I have just saved the album of 28 shots to my laptop, but the question remains: How to send them to this thread]

    TIA for any assistance
    In the "reply" tab ,,,image icon ..insert image click that and a dialog box appears and you choose your folder on your computer and upload them

    S

    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-screen-shot-2022-12-04-10-55-09-png

  21. #70

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    I just tried to submit a post with pictures and got an error. Is there a new size limit?

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by osloutah
    I just tried to submit a post with pictures and got an error. Is there a new size limit?
    try fewer pics at a time?

    S

  23. #72

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    I apologize in advance for the dust (I haven't had much guitar time lately). I bought my Chinese version on Reverb. It had clearly been sitting, barely used, and I was happy with what I paid for it. I did my own (questionable) setup when it arrived. Can't remember which strings I threw on, but they were surely at least 12s. It's a very "live" instrument, for lack of a better term. It also seems to have a lively/bright/trebly voice, but I had no problem dialing in a variety of usable tones. (I almost always play with a Dunlop 204, and it sure seems to account for a large percentage of my tone, so take all of this with that particular grain of salt.)

    If I had to have just one jazz guitar, this could certainly work for me. The neck is thinner than I tend to like, but it really works for me. It's very easy to hold because of the small body, it hangs well on a strap, and it's well built. Given the build quality alone, I would have been fine paying full price new for this instrument, but I haven't bought a new instrument in a long time (I think the dog Fender Jazzmaster was my last try).

    I came across one or two Japanese jazz guitar boxes (my PM100 and a Seventy Seven) and convinced myself that I could live without the GB10SE, so I sold it to a local shop. We've done business for a long time, so they treated me well. Time passed, and I was in the shop again looking around. The GB10SE was on the wall. They'd set it up, sold it to someone who is a monster player and churns through a ton of gear, and bought it back. I played it again and we settled on a price, which happened to be about what they paid me for it originally. Love, love these guys. If you're ever in town hit me up and I'll take you over to meet them.

    I put the guitar back into regular rotation (after throwing on heavier flats, but who knows what because I experimented a bit around this time), and then a few things changed for me and my guitar time diminished to close to zero. I'm not done with guitar playing, but for right now it's on the back burner.

    In at least one other post I mentioned an Indonesian version. That one was being sold by a different local shop. I don't know them as well, but they've always treated me right. I missed my chance to buy it. They didn't end up keeping it in stock because there's not a big market for jazz guitars here, but they were very quick to recommend it as a good jazz guitar.

    Pictures follow.

    Edit: looks like my picture problem was operator error. I'm on a desktop and just dropped the pictures into the window. Using the "Insert Image" button worked below, but it messed up the order and orientation of the pictures.

  24. #73

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    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-img-2345-jpgAppalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-img-2346-jpgAppalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-img-2347-jpgAppalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-img-2344-jpgAppalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-img-2343-jpgAppalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-img-2342-jpgAppalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-img-2341-jpgAppalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-img-2340-jpg

  25. #74

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    Looks like a totally different instrument from the op's .very nice...

    I've been wondering if the "Indonesian GB10 the OP bought is a "fake" so much looks wrong about it....

    S

  26. #75

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    Or, as with our US dealer GC, did his UK store send him someone’s return claiming it to be ‘new’.
    Happens a lot with GC.